The discussion revolves around the nature of acids, specifically focusing on whether compounds of acids are held together by ionic bonds and how acids behave in different states, particularly in relation to water. Participants explore concepts of ionization, dissociation, and the characteristics of bonds in acids.
Participants express differing views on the nature of acids, particularly regarding their ionic versus covalent characteristics and the conditions under which they dissociate. There is no consensus on the exact nature of the bonds in acids or the implications of their behavior in solution.
Some statements rely on assumptions about definitions of acidity and the nature of chemical bonds, which may not be universally agreed upon. The discussion also highlights the complexity of acid-base chemistry, indicating that further exploration of related concepts may be necessary.
This discussion may be of interest to students and enthusiasts of chemistry, particularly those looking to deepen their understanding of acid-base behavior and the underlying chemical principles involved.
Borek said:Actually HCl is not ionic, it is perfectly covalent when gaseous. It dissociates when dissolved. It is not safe to assume acids are ionic, water and hydration of ions play very important role when it comes to dissociation.
Note that there is no such thing as purely covalent or purely ionic bond, they all have some mixed characteristic. Properties of some substances are dominated by ionic character of the bond, properties of other substances are dominated by covalent character of the bonds, but both types are always present to some extent.
LogicalAcid said:So it breaks into Ions why? Main question is: why do they break into ions?
as long as a compound breaks into ions, and one of them is H+, it is acidic. But why does this ion make acid acidic, why can't something like a potato salad make the compound acidic, what makes H+ so special
And you said before that HCl is covalent in gaseous state, then why is it that it breaks into H+ and Cl- in water, not just regular atoms?
Borek said:Because when they are dissociated each individual ions is surrounded by water molecules. Water molecules are dipoles and they surround ions in a specific way - as if they wanted to neutralize the charge. Final energy of such a system is lower than the energy of the initial system. In a way minimalization of energy is behind almost all chemical processes.
I think I already told you - we NAMED them this way, so no wonder there is a connection between being acidic and giving off H+. We have found experimentally (and quite early in the history of human kind) that there is a huge class of compounds that are sour. We called them acids and their solutions acidic. Later we found they have one thing in common - they dissociate giving off H+. There is nothing more special in the fact that objects giving off H+ are called acids than in fact that objects with an engine, propeller and wings are called planes.
H+ and Cl- are much more stable than H and Cl atoms. These atoms are highly reactive as they want to reach more stable electronic configuration. H+ and Cl- ARE stable configurations for both of these atoms (they have lower energy than just atoms).
LogicalAcid said:When an acid dissolves in in water, the hydrogen atom always disassociates into a Hydrogen Ion, positive, and the atom accompanying it will always be negative b/c it reacted with hydrogen and took its only e-?
Borek said:You are mostly right, although acids are not limited to substances made of single hydrogen and single other atom - basically HF, HCl, HBr and HI only fit the description (some may add HAs to the list). Other acids are a little bit more complicated (HNO3), and they can carry more than one proton (H2SO4), but they behave similarly.