The Dangers of White Supremacy Ideology in America

[Nereid]

I do not want to sound rude, but the handle NoahAfrican strikes in me memories of stories of Marcus Garvey, founder of the "Black Star Line" and a leader in the "back-to-Africa" movement, as well as sounding quite similar to the kind of name one use to spoof a black supremacist for a character in a movie.
Also, the tone of your first post implies that you feel all "whites" are racist. I believe that racism is defined, as per dictionary.com, as "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others." I would think that claiming one group of people shares the same characteristic, of course excluding the pervading characteristic in that group that makes them a group, whether this characteristic is complimenting or insulting, would be racist. Personally that makes me racist because I think the fastest black people are faster than the fastest white people.

Well, no. Why? Because these 'fastest' people - black, white or puce - are such a tiny minority of any group as to be almost invisible; you'd only be a racist in this regard if you believed that the vast majority of blacks were 'faster' than the vast majority of whites (which is clearly absurd, and I'm sure you don't believe that!), and if anyone really cared which group was 'faster'

But it would also make someone racist who says something derogatory about any race, whether or not that race is a minority or not.

Yes, if they are referring to the whole group (not just a tiny, tiny number within that group).

I am sorry to bandy about this word racism, because, as Blackvision says, we should debate an arguements merits and not call people racist.

However, if in the course of such a debate, a debater introduces a quote from an organisation whose public stance is clearly racist (in the true meaning of your definition), it behooves us to make that connection known too.

I would like to address the issue of reparations though. Some would have us believe that poor african americans are in such a state in large part because of the reprucussions of slavery. But slavery ended over 140 years ago. And we all have many examples and role models in the "black" community to look up to from 40 years ago, a mere 100 years after slavery was abolished and during a time when racism permeated a much larger part of american culture than it currently does, all of whom overcame not only the more recent reprecussions of slavery but also the much more difficult hurdles of mass racism, which was much more prevasive back then. So how is it that they overcame all these hurdles 40 years ago that we are now supposed to think will still hold down many poor african americans?
These are just my veiws, and are pretty ignorant and not exactly expressed as clearly as i would like, but I'm by far not the brightest nor the most articulate member of these forums and in fact am quite new and not used to how y'all do things, so i hope I haven't offended anyone.

To extend this, if we think globally, what calculus do we use to redress the myriad of wrongs visited on people in many lands over the past century, millenium, and more? If you are a direct descendant of a slave brought to what we now call Greece, from (say) what we now call Iran, how do we calculate the redress owed to you? Since the pages of history are soaked in blood and tears, there will be a great many claims, and claimants.

 

[Dagenais]

This is true. As shown by the absolute dominance of Africans in track & field.

African-Americans had an extremely strong dominance in the world of Professional basketball as well.

The USA Dream Team has no Caucasian members on it.

The only American that isn't African-American listed on the NBA 2003-2004 Top 50 Scorers is Keith Van Horn.

The only American that isn't African-American that made the All-star team is Sacramento's Brad Miller.

Dirk Nowitzki and Peja Stojakovic are the only 2 other caucasian players that I can think of that made it on the Top 50 scorers list. Both of them are not American.

They train constantly, from a very young age. The kids growing up in the countryside run everywhere they go, often to adjacent towns and settlements that might be many miles away.

A lot of Kenyans are naturally fast though.

This is a pretty sad example, but I saw an ad for Nike, featuring a runner from Kenya, who claimed he was fast - scientists studied him, but don't know why - he's just fast. "I'm just fast, maybe you need these", and he ran off without the Nike shoes! There has to be at least some truth to that.

Let me tell you why the dutch are so good at track ice-skating: practice.

There's a lot of skating going on in Quebec too. You don't see Quebecois taking the Gold in that competition.

Let's say that race doesn't give an advantage in physical activities like sports. Can you explain to me why in hockey, the best player right now is of African descent (Jerome Iginla)? How about the physical domination of Mike Grier, Donald Brashear and Georges Laraque? This is hockey we're talking about - not popular amoung most blacks as other sports are.

If they're not good in winter sports, that would certainly make sense.

All the African-Canadians that make it to the NHL completely dominate the game.

Whether it is on ice or not should make no difference, should it?

It shouldn't make too much of a difference.

That may be why Laraque can beat the crap out of even the toughest NHL enforcers. I've also never seen Iginla lose a fight, and Grier - he's just plain strong. Donald Brashear is probably the best fighter in the NHL aside from Laraque (who is much larger).

 

[NoahAfrican]

Ahhhhh…the catch-22...saying that blacks are physically genetically superior is popular only because most people who say that believe that blacks are mentally and emotionally inferior to the degree that the aggregate of both maintains a white superiority.

I think that there are many reasons why blacks dominate in certain sports. One of the primary reasons that blacks do not dominate ice skating is due to economic cost. To be world class at ice skating requires much ice time as a youth and given the poverty rate of blacks relative to others, blacks simply do not participate in great numbers to produce a star.

Economics is a BIG factor in black sports participation. You must remember that the most prominent people in the world for black people are Athletes and entertainers. Why is this so? Well in America discrimination prevented the elevation and fame in venues of politics and economic power, more so than in Athletics, prior to the civil rights movement. Thus, when black youth look for role models that looked like them, the faces that they saw on TV and newspapers were athletes and thus blacks gravitated towards this. Consequently, black youth see sports and entertainment as the best ticket out of poverty. This also helps to explain the lower SAT test scoring relative to others. They see more examples of athletic and entertainment success for blacks than they do of anything else, which devalues education for many.

One would have to take note that it is the mixed blacks of America who dominate most world sports and not the pure blacks of Africa. Just like the African American has a higher homicide rate than the pure African in Burkina Faso and other West African countries, so does the African American have a higher sports success. If the darker or purer the black made the superior athlete, then the NBA and NFL need to start feeder programs in the SUDAN, where the darkest black people live.

Also, let us be cognizant that not too long ago whites dominated long distance running and there were all kinds of genetic explanations as to why whites were able to dominate the distance races. However, it is funny how such scientific conclusions change only when actual facts prove them wrong. When the East Africans began to dominate the distance races, those genetic theories on why whites could dominate the distance races faded from the literature.

Pretty soon I can only guess that the topic will eventually get to penis size….Hahahahahahahahahah…where else can black vision go?

 

[Prometheus]

Ahhhhh…the catch-22...saying that blacks are physically genetically superior is popular only because most people who say that believe that blacks are mentally and emotionally inferior to the degree that the aggregate of both maintains a white superiority.

Did someone say that blacks are physically genetically superior, or did you generalize this from the idea that blacks dominate in certain sports?

 

[BlackVision]

One would have to take note that it is the mixed blacks of America who dominate most world sports and not the pure blacks of Africa.

False. In America, it is most often the darkest Blacks that dominate track & field.

Consequently, black youth see sports and entertainment as the best ticket out of poverty. This also helps to explain the lower SAT test scoring relative to others.

My is this a horrible connection. Don't slam 2 puzzle pieces together that don't fit.

Hahahahahahahahahah…where else can black vision go?

Since you ignored all my questions and comments, why do I need to stay here? I've already proved my point and you have absolutely failed to refute them.

 

[BlackVision]

Well, no. Why? Because these 'fastest' people - black, white or puce - are such a tiny minority of any group as to be almost invisible; you'd only be a racist in this regard if you believed that the vast majority of blacks were 'faster' than the vast majority of whites (which is clearly absurd, and I'm sure you don't believe that!), and if anyone really cared which group was 'faster'

Yes the vast majority of blacks are faster than the vast majority of whites. The median is set higher for blacks. Every study done on this matter has come to the same conclusion. But you don't like people that accept evidence or facts do you? Ah the "race card". Can't leave home without it.

Yes, if they are referring to the whole group (not just a tiny, tiny number within that group).

The average Black man would run faster than an average White man. What's so hard to understand? This is all addressed in " Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid to Talk"

However, if in the course of such a debate, a debater introduces a quote from an organisation whose public stance is clearly racist

To you, any study that shows any different whatsoever between races will be racist to you no matter what the evidence, no matter how much science.

 

[plus]

Get over it plus, we discussed it a long time ago.

It was in mid discussion and it was discussed again this week. Admit that you were lying.

 

[plus]

The average Black man would run faster than an average White man.

Im not so sure about this.There are issues such as putting on weight. The average african american is heavier than the average european american. if you included people of all ages, then maybe the orientals would be faster.

 

[plus]

I think that there are many reasons why blacks dominate in certain sports. One of the primary reasons that blacks do not dominate ice skating is due to economic cost.

Due to living in america and affirmative action, the african americans are one of the most affluent groups of people in the world. You cannot use poverty as an excuse now.

Consequently, black youth see sports and entertainment as the best ticket out of poverty. This also helps to explain the lower SAT test scoring relative to others. They see more examples of athletic and entertainment success for blacks than they do of anything else, which devalues education for many.

Yes. There is a bad attitude towards education in the black communities. Some of this may be due to the media pushing the gangsta rapper images. But again this is an example where the lower black economic levels of sucess relative to others in USA is not due to white on black racism.

When the East Africans began to dominate the distance races, those genetic theories on why whites could dominate the distance races faded from the literature.

There are still some whites beating the blacks at the long distance races though, so the black supremacy in the sprint races is not echoed entirely in the long distances.

Pretty soon I can only guess that the topic will eventually get to penis size….Hahahahahahahahahah…where else can black vision go?

This is an immature comment.

 

[BlackVision]

Im not so sure about this.There are issues such as putting on weight. The average african american is heavier than the average european american. if you included people of all ages, then maybe the orientals would be faster.

No Asians run even slower than Whites. All the little physical advantages that Blacks seem to have over Whites, Whites have over Asians.

 

[plus]

No Asians run even slower than Whites. All the little physical advantages that Blacks seem to have over Whites, Whites have over Asians.

My point was that the asians are generally a little thinner throught their lives than whites, hence might throught their lives be fitter than both whites and blacks. Therefore, at least for middle distances, they on average should run faster.

For the non athletes, time taken to run a distance probably depends more on fitness than on the amount of fast or slow twitch muscles.

 

[Nereid]

Yes the vast majority of blacks are faster than the vast majority of whites.

So here's a good example of a situation where definitions really do matter
Suppose we have two groups of individuals, A and B. Suppose some characteristic (called X) of each individual in each group is measured objectively and each measurements recorded as a number. Suppose the distribution of those measurements is gaussian (so the mean, median and mode will be the same). Suppose the standard deviation of each gaussian is the same. Suppose we call X 'speed'. Then the question 'how many individuals in A are faster than individuals in B?' can be interpreted in several different ways; for example:
1) give each individual in each group a rank, based on their measured speed, starting with the fastest (rank = 1); the question then becomes 'how many individuals in A have a measured speed which is higher than that of individuals in B, for the same rank?'
2) plot the two distributions, normalised for group size; the question then becomes 'what is the ratio of the area of non-overlap to overlap, for those parts of each curve which are greater than the mean of slower group?'

In the first example, the answer depends upon both the difference in the means and the group size; in the second, on the difference in the means.

What I meant by 'the vast majority of blacks were 'faster' than the vast majority of whites (which is clearly absurd ...)' is close to 2).

In what sense do you mean 'the vast majority of blacks are faster than the vast majority of whites'?

The median is set higher for blacks.

Perhaps you mean 'is observed to be higher'?

Every study done on this matter has come to the same conclusion.

That's a pretty sweeping statement! So for clarity, and to ensure that I don't misunderstand you, please give a couple of examples of these studies. Please also clarify what you mean by 'this matter' and 'the same conclusion'.

The average Black man would run faster than an average White man. What's so hard to understand?

As you have capitalised the two words, I assume that you are referring to the US (it's not clear if you are talking about men vs women, or just people in general - please clarify). You also use the word 'average', and earlier 'median', so I guess you mean that the appropriate measure for average is the median.

What's really hard to understand is 'would run'. From the way you tend to write I could guess it means 'if all other conditions were equal'; if so, then this is really hard to understand, if only because I can't see how you could even specify what all the 'other conditions' are, let alone make estimates of their contributions to speed of running.

This is all addressed in " Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid to Talk"

Please give a link.

To you, any study that shows any different whatsoever between races will be racist to you no matter what the evidence, no matter how much science.

This is a pretty categorical statement, no 'seems', no 'I, BV, feel that', no tentativeness or uncertainty. It's also pretty ridiculous given my posts here in Social Sciences, particularly my clearly stated intention of trying to find what scientific basis there is to 'human races' (if any).

So, I would like you to either
a) provide evidence to support your assertion, or
b) retract your statement.

For the avoidance of doubt, if you do neither, I will consider that evidence that you have no intention of taking a scientific approach to questions within the domain of the social sciences.

 

[BlackVision]

My point was that the asians are generally a little thinner throught their lives than whites, hence might throught their lives be fitter than both whites and blacks.

What do you mean by fitter? They do tend to live the longest out of any race in the same given environment if that's anything.

time taken to run a distance probably depends more on fitness than on the amount of fast or slow twitch muscles.

Blacks tend to have the most stamina.

 

[BlackVision]

In what sense do you mean 'the vast majority of blacks are faster than the vast majority of whites'?

That the bell curve for Blacks would be set higher in the category mentioned. Was that so hard to understand?

Perhaps you mean 'is observed to be higher'?

Wrong.

Please also clarify what you mean by 'this matter' and 'the same conclusion'.

LOL. Please describe to me what watermelon and sunlight mean.

You also use the word 'average', and earlier 'median', so I guess you mean that the appropriate measure for average is the median.

Both average and median is higher.

Please give a link.

It's a book. Go to a bookstore.

no 'seems', no 'I, BV, feel that'

What the hell are you saying here?

It's also pretty ridiculous given my posts here in Social Sciences, particularly my clearly stated intention of trying to find what scientific basis there is to 'human races' (if any).

Since it's been quite clear that you've been politically motivated from the start, it would not be ridiculous.

There are DNA sequences that are more prevalent or less prevalent in a given race. That certainly is a scientific basis for race which you continue to ignore.

a) provide evidence to support your assertion

Oh yeah because I haven't done this countless times.

I will consider that evidence that you have no intention of taking a scientific approach to questions within the domain of the social sciences.

Believe me that is already what I, and I'm quite sure others, feel toward you.

 

[plus]

What do you mean by fitter? They do tend to live the longest out of any race in the same given environment if that's anything.

Healthier.As in less body fat,lower pulse rate etc. They are shorter,and then would have less strain on the heart. I am only guessing though.
Certainly, I think that the average white puts more emphasis on being healthier than the average black.

Blacks tend to have the most stamina.

Which type of blacks?East or west african?

 

[Monique]

PEOPLE! A scientific mind is one that weighs out different scenario's against each other, I don't see that happening here.

BlackVision: you are guilty of generalizing populations and promoting racism, you seem to be very short-sighted in your conclusions. I warn you: no more generalizations will be tolerated (ie "Blacks tend to have the most stamina.") or the discussion will be closed.

 

[BlackVision]

BlackVision: you are guilty of generalizing populations and promoting racism

Incorrect. You just seem to be very sensitive on this issue.

you seem to be very short-sighted in your conclusions.

Wrong. The conclusions are based on scientific studies.

I warn you: no more generalizations will be tolerated (ie "Blacks tend to have the most stamina.")

Would I also not be allowed to say "Men tend to have more upper body strength"? I mean Jesus Christ. Excuse me for saying a factual statement.

or the discussion will be closed.

Like that doesn't fit with your history.

 

[BlackVision]

Which type of blacks?East or west african?

Well both will be more so than any other race. But likely East African over West African as far as stamina goes.

 

[iansmith]

This thread has been going in circle and very little advancement have been done. It has also been going off topic.