The direction of an electrical current

[NTL2009]

Threads like this are fascinating.

Someone w/o basic knowledge in an area says the experts are wrong or confused, or that the experts can't explain something. But the novice can't really describe what they are talking about. Methinks there is a communication breakdown between the OP and the experts the OP talked to.

If anyone missed OPs first thread, it kind of puts things in perspective.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-seeing-believing-in-physics.949179/

@Wattif , you've gone this far - please answer the questions out of respect to the people here who took the time and effort to respond to you.

 

[CWatters]

I'm sorry, there is no links, through different experiments I have seen things that could
point to a difference of opinion on current movement and what magnetic fields are created.

If you can't provide links, or conventional references, how can we possibly comment or assess their relevance to your question?

That is why I have been reading from this forum for several years and decided to post some questions.
Not trying to stir things up, but my questions are because of what I have seen and also because, Like I said
I have had 2 different professors test our works and with their's and your theory's, the outcome is different
than what the system does. So if the system has a different outcome from the theories currently used,
then something must have been overlooked or never seem before.
1 professor does not believe because his simulation says it can't happen, but he saw it happen.
A simulation can only work if all the data is the same, so if it thinks one way but its happening in another
then the outcome will be different. The other wanted to work with us but has congestive heart failure and is at
the point where he can't do much of anything.

If you, or anyone else for that matter, thinks they have made a new discovery (and you have eliminated errors to reduce embarrassment) the best way to proceed is to document and publish the experiment so that it can be replicated.

I understand that some on here want to pick apart every word and that's ok, all I'm trying to do is get answers.

To answer a question we first have to understand it.

Like I said I will post a diagram and let who ever would like explain what they see.

Awaited with interest.

I note your YouTube video is three years old but neither it nor your other videos appear to demonstrate your assertion that flipping a coil gives different results to winding one in the other direction.

 

[Tom.G]

PS your coils are marked clockwise and anti clockwise but the direction depends on which end you look at.

What do you get if you look at this from opposite ends? To me it looks like it is a clockwise wind regardless.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Solenoid-1.png

 

[berkeman]

What do you get if you look at this from opposite ends? To me it looks like it is a clockwise wind regardless.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Solenoid-1.png

I think the OP means that the 2 coils are wound in opposite directions. So given the same current through both, the B-field in the middle cancels. But I'm honestly not sure what he means.

 

[jim hardy]

@Wattiff

how can it be said that the magnetic field is the only determining factor of what direction the current is moving?
In both coils the current is starting and ending at the same points, just rotating in different directions.

Current and its magnetic field are related by right hand rule.

Words that paint a different picture need to be fine- tuned . After all,
'The art of reasoning is nothing more than a language well arranged" _Lavoisier

There's a third flux coming straight out of the screen toward your eyes because of the current flowing around the loop between the battery terminals. Right hand rule again.

Excruciating attention to detail in wording is the price of clear communication.

Don't give up - we all struggle in the early stages.

Any help?

old jim

 

[cosmik debris]

If an Electrical Engineer had access to a time machine the first thing he/she would do is go back to the time of Benjamin Franklin, kick him in the nuts, and tell him to regard electrons as having a positive charge.

Cheers

 

[Merlin3189]

I wonder if OP is using CW & ACW as right handed and left handed, as in screw threads.

As far as the direction of current being determined by magnetism, I wonder if OP is thinking of placing a compass needle by the wire, so that the direction of deflection indicates the direction of current.

The problem of

I place both coils in the between the battery terminals, positive right and negative left. The 2 coils will have opposite magnetic fields, so if the current is moving from positive to negative only and creating different magnetic fields based on the coil winding clockwise or counterclockwise, how can it be said that the magnetic field is the only determining factor of what direction the current is moving?

then seems like he has simply not realized how the geometric change affects the magnetic fields. If I placed two compasses at different points along a straight wire between the battery terminals, I too would be surprised if they pointed in opposite directions (ie. in opposite senses of the same direction, provided the compasses were similarly positioned, say below the wire.)
It seems to me that op is focused on the flow in the direction between the battery terminals and not recognising the effects of turning the wire perpendicular to that direction in forming the coils.

Perhaps he could be helped by doing more simple experiments with single wires, or even just thinking about them.

BTW Dale, I've done experiments like this. I know my teacher always put a rheostat in series with the battery and I approve his caution. But when I did it at home, I didn't have a rheostat, so built the circuits with battery and wire. I'm pretty certain I never got an infinite current, even when the circuit was just a short piece of wire which got hot and burnt my fingers. I guess I was lucky to have those rare bits of equipment, batteries with internal resistance and coils wound with wire having resistance. (And of course, nearly flat batteries, because they had been so abused.)
I haven't checked through PF, but I'd be ready to bet that the majority of circuits (assuming there are others of this simplicity) don't bother to show a rheostat or a symbolic resistor to represent the battery internal (& wire?) resistance, unless it is germane to the question being asked.

 

[CWatters]

What do you get if you look at this from opposite ends? To me it looks like it is a clockwise wind regardless.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Solenoid-1.png

Darn it you are correct. I'll correct my earlier posts if possible.

 

[Dale]

I'm pretty certain I never got an infinite current,

That is why I said “as drawn”.

I'd be ready to bet that the majority of circuits (assuming there are others of this simplicity) don't bother to show a rheostat or a symbolic resistor to represent the battery internal (& wire?) resistance, unless it is germane to the question being asked.

Maybe not, but it is still sloppy, regardless of how good of a bet sloppiness is.

 

[berkeman]

I regret posting anything, please remove, thank you

Looks like it's time to close the thread. Thanks to everybody for trying to help the OP with his understanding of circuits and EM.