The Effect Of Biological Immortality On Technology And Society

[Bab5space]

Humans die because it's part of our makeup. From birth till death our expiration date is waiting for us.

Scifi aliens need not be mortal, even though they are more often than not a proxy for specific human attitudes and behaviors.

So here is the question, what effect does biological immortality have on technology and society?

I will go first:

1. It depends on if the aliens have a utopia or a dystopia. If they have a utopia, war technology will largely be nonexistent apart from whatever they need to defend againt hostile aliens. Prisons won't even be necessary on true utopias as no one will commit violent crimes. Also expect them to have a strict screening process for visitors and would-be citizens. Immortal dystopias will have weapons upon weapons, largely to stave off their own death from each other as well as hostile aliens.

2. Biological immortality and having children forever don't mix unless you plan on terraforming or colonizing new worlds. The alternative is an advanced form of birth control that won't fail.

That's all I can think of. What have you got?

 

[sysprog]

It seems to me that natural immortality would foment extreme reticence regarding taking of bodily risk.

 

[essenmein]

Unless these are engineered beings, I can't see how highly complex immortal beings would "evolve" into existence since evolution requires allowing the less successful permutations to fail (die). When stories place a being in a society the nagging thing at the back of my mind is always could something like this come into existence? By what path? One of my favorite scifi shows yesterday had technologically advanced snakes that get taught how to time travel. Cool fun story, and many questions, how did snakes make complex tools with no hands?

Now the caveat is off course biological immortality basically already exists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality

 

[anorlunda]

Isn't it rational to expect an intelligent species to interfere or override evolution once they have the capability? Think of genetic engineering. I know that researchers here on Earth are looking into treating aging as if it was a disease. Who knows how successful they will be given enough time? So a SciFi story set in our own future would plausibly portray immortal humans.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/richard-seymour

 

[essenmein]

Yup, which is an important distinction, a society that exists where creatures that evolved to be immortal (ie have for all intents always been immortal) and a society that exists where at some point creatures went from being mortal, to perhaps extending life, to true immortality I think these would be quite different.

 

[Bab5space]

Yup, which is an important distinction, a society that exists where creatures that evolved to be immortal (ie have for all intents always been immortal) and a society that exists where at some point creatures went from being mortal, to perhaps extending life, to true immortality I think these would be quite different.

I find the concept of naturally biologically immortal races fascinating, as it would truly be something alien to human characters encountering such a race and would have a lot of cultural effects on the race too.

Job reassignments would be the only way to get a job since employees won't die off.

For a race of immortals jacks of all trades should be as common as dirt. They certainly have the time.

 

[anorlunda]

One thing to consider is that the closer individuals come to immorality, the smaller the optimum population. I think it was one of Asimov's books in which there were only 5 immortal people alive in the whole galaxy. They lived separated so no baby making would be going on.

 

[Bab5space]

One thing to consider is that the closer individuals come to immorality, the smaller the optimum population. I think it was one of Asimov's books in which there were only 5 immortal people alive in the whole galaxy. They lived separated so no baby making would be going on.

Only if your Asimov. I would use immortaliyy as incentive to expore

 

[PeroK]

I find the concept of naturally biologically immortal races fascinating, as it would truly be something alien to human characters encountering such a race and would have a lot of cultural effects on the race too.

Job reassignments would be the only way to get a job since employees won't die off.

For a race of immortals jacks of all trades should be as common as dirt. They certainly have the time.

I reckon there would be a lot of suicides. It would be the only way out.

 

[member 656954]

I reckon there would be a lot of suicides. It would be the only way out.

Neal Asher's Polity series touch on this through long-lived humans who are potentially immortal, and they suffer ennui and often 'suicide' after losing interest in living (I've put that in quotes because they embark in risky activities without the usual safety devices, so it's not as if they just take their own life).

AIs also detach themselves from our dimension when they get bored and go off somewhere else, and while I feel the AI aspect is essentially a plot device, I'd reckon after many centuries, a person would likely lose the will to live and exercise their 'only way out'.

 

[256bits]

If they have a utopia

Doesn't exist, and never will, except for perhaps a short moment in time.
Utopia would mean that each and every individual is content with the way things are.
No politics, no competition, no desire for change - in essence a very boring life. A dystopia in disguise.

 

[Bab5space]

Doesn't exist, and never will, except for perhaps a short moment in time.
Utopia would mean that each and every individual is content with the way things are.
No politics, no competition, no desire for change - in essence a very boring life. A dystopia in disguise.

Contentment is an intenal feeling thing, not an external action Therefore change is possible and inevitable in relative degrees.

Why change things if things are going good? Unless it is necessary, like colonization and terraforming of new worlds because people keep having children.

As for utopias being boring, I think that is because people assume negative things about them, and the fact that a utopia would imply people actually change their behavior for good... forever more. Which people find hard to believe since we have only known dystopias all our lives.

Also popular held theories and philosopies also cast a negative eye on utopias, such as evolution, which implies several things that run counter to the idea of a utopia existing which I am also well aware of.

 

[anorlunda]

All this discussion is for a human-like species. I like to express it in star trek terms; the aliens are just like us except for funny foreheads.

How could you speculate on a really different species? For example, an ant-like hive species. It might be immortal. The intelligence could be collective rather than individual, and individuals might be born and die while the hive lives forever. You can't project any human psychology onto something like that.

 

[Bab5space]

All this discussion is for a human-like species. I like to express it in star trek terms; the aliens are just like us except for funny foreheads.

How could you speculate on a really different species? For example, an ant-like hive species. It might be immortal. The intelligence could be collective rather than individual, and individuals might be born and die while the hive lives forever. You can't project any human psychology onto something like that.

Regarding Star Trek, I do not imitate the thoroughly human behavior of it's humanoid aliens. As I find it too common, making aliens out to be just a macro size retelling of the Cold War between Western and Soviet factions. Or WWII in space.

Regarding what is truly alien... nothing we know is. Since alien is anything we are not familiar with.

I have discussed at length elsewhere that all we have to make scifi aliens is human and animal behavior.

I care not nearly as much about a scifi alien's anatomy as I do about their behavior. If they look truly strange and not humanoid yet they act just like us, I have a problem with that.

Animal behavior is guided by a mix of instinct, a need to survive and reproduce, and whatever relationships they develop midstream.

Humans lack instinct programming, which is great since it allows them more options as to their occupation. We are neither hard-coded predators nor kitted out to be shepherds only. We can educate ourselves to do or be anything within our power.

I too find beastly scifi aliens to be interesting... but only somewhat.

They do not command my attention as much as humanoids who can interact with humanity on deeper levels.

No... I am not necessarily referring to sex, but culture, like what beastly alien will have works of art or symphonies of music?

The less a race is like us the less a reader will be transfixed by them I believe, while the more they are like us the more the reader may like them.

It's a fine line to walk though, since I am commited to behavior that is human but tweaked in whatever specific direction I want for a race.