# Aerospace The end of history, and over 1000 jobs.

1. Sep 21, 2009

### PhoenyxRising

The home of the lancaster bombers are abt to close down. Forever.
"Woodford Aerodrome, the home of the Lancaster bomber, is to be closed by BAE Systems,
ending 85 years of aerospace history and prompting more than 1,000 job losses at Europe’s largest defence company. " I got this from the times online

Apparently up to 630 jobs could go at Woodford, with a further 205 at Samlesbury, and 170 at Warton, both near Preston, Lancashire.

I really dont know. I mean shouldnt they at least try keep one of them open, maybe make a history museum from it or something.

Im not just looking at the job cuts here either, these aircraft were a major part of history during ww2. They were the most important bombers and used in missions like the Dambusters raid in 1943 and the bombing of the Tirpitz, the German battleship, in 1944.

This really is a shame. Even though the premises are probably going to be sold to developers, this is a huge piece of heritage that going to be lost.

By the 2012 there are going to be a lot more people looking for jobs in aerospace

2. Sep 21, 2009

### FredGarvin

It's always sad to see the big historical names go. I just got to see a Lanc fly this summer again. It's always tough to see what happens to historical aviation sites after time passes. It just doesn't seem right. For example, on Long Island, NY (where I used to live) the airfield that Charles Lindbergh took off from is now a mall. The one thing I would keep in mind is that the Brits have a great tradition of military museums and preserving the past. I would think the Lanc will be paid its due respect.

The cold hard fact is that most companies go out of business unless they keep up with the times. It sounds like this is a restructuring, so it may no t be as bad as it may seem.

3. Sep 21, 2009

### mgb_phys

Difficult to feel too much sympathy for BAe.

They are closing because they just finished a project to upgrade some Nimrod ASW aircraft.
The project was called Nimrod 2000 and was supposed to deliver the planes in 2000 (doh) they will now enter service in 2010.
It was going to cost 2Bn GBP for 21 planes but has actually cost twice that for 9 - making the $6-700M/plane the most expensive aircraft in the world. And that's just the upgrade, it doesn't include the cost of the original planes which are Avro Comets, chosen for this job to prop-up the preceding 'vital to the national interest' aircraft maker when they couldn't sell them to the public. Still soon the forces in Afghanistan, who are short of helicopters and uniforms will have a fine anti-submarine warfare plane. Last edited: Sep 21, 2009 4. Sep 21, 2009 ### JoVieira Its sad because so many people will lose thier jobs at once but not as bad because at least they will have time to look for other work and explore thier options unlike the people that were made redundant over night! They already proposed 500 njob cuts earlier this year in Leeds and Telford as well! Something isn't quite right - is there no more work coming in or something? I don't understand why the project is running so behind or has proven to be so expensive compared to the initial plans???? Hmmmm...... 5. Sep 21, 2009 ### mgb_phys Because like (almost) all defence projects it's really just a big taxpayer handout to the company. This is the same outfit that delivered eurofighters on time for Gulf war I by the simple method of declaring the final assembly line to be an RAF base - and so counting half assembled airframes on the factory floor as in-service. BAe, most of whose employees are in the USA and most of whose business is in the USA pulls out the same line about it being vital to the UK's national security every time some project becomes a complete joke. But it's interesting that after putting Bns of taxpayer money into a project to secure these vital skills, they are happy to lay them all off as soon as the project is delivered. 6. Sep 21, 2009 ### JoVieira That says it all then really doesnt it? They are no different to all the other money grabbers out there! Its a wonder places like this actually exist you know? Horrible what they can get away with when you think about it! 7. Sep 21, 2009 ### FredGarvin That takes a big set of brass ones. 8. Sep 21, 2009 ### mgb_phys It has been a somewhat farsical project - not entirely BAe's fault. It's was meant to be a cheap air superiority fighter to deal with East German MIGS, basically an improved f16. 20 years later it's an expensive, pretty good but non-stealth air superiority fighter that can't do ground attack - ready to challenge the East German MIGS who are now on our side. Because it was a multinational project with guaranteed buys by each country in return for a slice of the pork they are all committed to buying planes they can't use or afford. The RAF is buying another 99 to mothball, the German airforce is being slightly more creative - it is selling the old East German MIGs and requipping the units with eurofighters. So if the MIGS are sold to a country that ends up on the wrong side of the next axis of evil - the eurofighters might end up fighting them at last. 9. Sep 23, 2009 ### PhoenyxRising eurofighter OMG the specs on this fighter are awesome. a mig wont stand up to that for much time im afraid. Just comparing the specs is incredible. how tho do the eurofighters remain that agile fully loaded. have you seen its arsenal? geez. 10. Sep 23, 2009 ### JoVieira Impressive indeed! It looks like Germany have the right idea though - sell off the old and in with the new! lets hope the eurofighter and migs don't end up in any battle though! 11. Sep 23, 2009 ### mgb_phys But the new is only necessary to deal with the old. It's like Boeing getting a contract to develop a fighter to deal with the confederate army. 12. Sep 23, 2009 ### FredGarvin That is being suggested these days. Since most of the fighting is against forces that don't have air forces, why bother with the F-22 or F-35? 13. Sep 23, 2009 ### mgb_phys An optimal (from a financial view) solution would be to sell the Taliban eurofighters! 14. Sep 23, 2009 ### FredGarvin They'd use them for smuggling opium. 15. Sep 23, 2009 ### mgb_phys Well how else are they going to afford a$250M airplane?

16. Sep 23, 2009

### chayced

Can't argue with that logic.

17. Sep 24, 2009

### JoVieira

Hehe

18. Nov 20, 2009

### PhoenyxRising

hi there, sorry for the delay :D been really busy lately. I did hoever see something interesting :D

The eurofighter tycoon is on display at the dubai airshow :D

AMEinfo and apparently already been sold to a few countries..

anyhoo have a good weekend

Phoenyx

19. Nov 22, 2009

### Cyrus

What "specs" are "awesome"? In what way wont a mig "stand up to that for much time"? Please don't text speek, or make generalized comments that are unsubstantiated.

20. Dec 20, 2009

### mugaliens

Perhaps to counter these guys, if needed, or any other adversary we may need to counter, with a greater than marginal kill ratio.