The Enduring Power of Nature: Hydroelectric Dam

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the longevity and operational history of various mechanical devices, particularly focusing on hydroelectric dams, clocks, and other machines. Participants explore the criteria for what constitutes continuous operation without servicing and compare different historical and modern examples.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that hydroelectric dams, like the Hoover Dam, have been operational for a long time but require upgrades and servicing.
  • Others mention Big Ben as a long-running clock but note that it has undergone major overhauls, raising questions about its classification as continuously operating.
  • A participant references the WMAP data to discuss the age of the universe, while another challenges the accuracy of dating methods and points out the margin of error in such estimates.
  • Some participants propose that older machines, such as Voyager I and Pioneer 10, might be contenders for the oldest operating machines without servicing.
  • There are mentions of ancient mechanical devices like water wheels and pendulums that may have operated for extended periods without servicing, though the criteria for "continuous operation" are debated.
  • A participant shares links to a 700-year-old mechanical clock and an ancient pipe organ, suggesting that these could also be considered in the discussion of longevity.
  • Questions arise about whether certain devices, like bells or other mechanical systems, fit into the category of continuously operating mechanisms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on what qualifies as a continuously operating machine without servicing. Multiple competing views are presented regarding the definitions and examples of such machines.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the definitions of continuous operation and the criteria for considering a machine as still functioning. There are also unresolved questions about the accuracy of historical claims and the specifics of mechanical maintenance.

wolram
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has been running for the longest time, i thought maybe a hydroelectric dam
 
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Hasn't Big Ben been running for a long time, or does a clock not count?
 
Evo said:
Hasn't Big Ben been running for a long time, or does a clock not count?

I never thought about big ben, but i think it has had several major overhauls to keep it running.
 
In 2001, the WMAP data was used to compute that the universe has been running like clockwork for 13,750,000,000 years. So now, in 2010 the universe has been running for 13,750,000,009 years without interruption.
 
Jimmy Snyder said:
In 2001, the WMAP data was used to compute that the universe has been running like clockwork for 13,750,000,000 years. So now, in 2010 the universe has been running for 13,750,000,009 years without interruption.

I doubt that is how dating methods work. If I remember correctly, the margin of error for the age of the universe is something like ± 0.13 billion years.
 
wolram said:
I never thought about big ben, but i think it has had several major overhauls to keep it running.
You're unlikely to find any mechanical devices continuously running for more than a few decades without a "major overhaul". The Hoover Dam was built in ~1930 but it has had its turbines upgraded, for example.
 
If we are talking about the oldest machine still operating without servicing, then perhaps the Voyager I is nearing top of the list.

I was thinking that there may be a few pendulums, hand pumps, and water wheels, that would be contenders for the longest operating without servicing, though perhaps not continuously operating. In particular, I am thinking there may be a few very old, seriously over-built water wheels found around the world.
 
Ivan Seeking said:
If we are talking about the oldest machine still operating without servicing, then perhaps the Voyager I is nearing top of the list.
Pioneer 10 is in the lead by 5 years and some change.
 
Mkorr said:
I doubt that is how dating methods work. If I remember correctly, the margin of error for the age of the universe is something like ± 0.13 billion years.
I stand corrected. There is a margin of error of 130,000,009 years in my number.
 
  • #10
Big Ben isn't a clock, and it's pretty modern compared with many cathedral and church clocks.
 
  • #11
Here's a mechanical clock that is over 700 years old and still working. http://www.wellscathedral.org.uk/history/presentbuilding/theclock.shtml

One of the earliest pipe organs in playable working order (and still at its original location) dates from 1361. To celebrate its survival, a project has been started to perform what is (probably) the longest piece of organ music ever concieved (started in 2001, scheduled to end in 2639) on a new pipe organ at the same location. http://www.john-cage.halberstadt.de/new/index.php?l=e

I guess things like Stonehenge and the Pyramids don't count, since the only moving part of the mechanism is the Earth (or as the original builders would have said, the sun),
 
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  • #12
I can almost swear that I saw something somewhere (maybe History Channel) about a waterwheel/pump combination in either Iran or Iraq that goes back to Roman times and is still functional. My memory just isn't up to placing it, though.
 
  • #13
Ivan Seeking said:
...I was thinking that there may be a few pendulums, hand pumps, and water wheels, that would be contenders for the longest operating without servicing...

Does a bell count as a pendulum or mechanism? Surely there has to be an old bell somewhere that's been hanging around a long time. Doors, buoys, bridges, ovens, teapots and slingshots may also be on a fuzzy line between static and dynamic mechanical systems.

Drawing a bow and winding a clock is quite similar mechanically, with catapults and trebuchets making a clear bridge between the two.
 
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