The expectation of 'z' and 'x+iy'

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter vertices
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Expectation
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the expectation values of quantum mechanical operators, specifically for the hydrogen atom wavefunctions. Participants explore the calculations of and in the context of understanding how radiation is polarized, particularly under the influence of an external magnetic field.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks ideas on evaluating the expectation values =<\Phi1|z|\Phi2> and =<\Phi1|x+iy|\Phi2>, specifically for hydrogen wavefunctions.
  • Another participant suggests that the key part of the calculation involves knowing and provides the relationships x = r sin(θ) cos(φ) and y = r sin(θ) sin(φ).
  • A later reply identifies that for hydrogen-like wavefunctions, x+iy can be expressed as a spherical harmonic, specifically Y(l=1,m=1), indicating that the expectation value can be derived from this.
  • Participants discuss the representation of z in spherical coordinates, noting that z=rcos(θ) and suggesting that its expectation can be computed using and .

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to agree on the mathematical relationships involved in the calculations, but there is no explicit consensus on the methods or results for the expectation values discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the need for spherical harmonics and 3-j symbols, indicating potential limitations in the discussion regarding the complexity of these mathematical tools and their application to the problem at hand.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in quantum mechanics, particularly those studying atomic wavefunctions and the effects of external fields on radiation polarization.

vertices
Messages
62
Reaction score
0
can anyone give me any ideas on how to evaluate this:

<z>=<[tex]\Phi[/tex]1|z|[tex]\Phi[/tex]2>

(for say hydrogen wavefunctions). Similarly

<x+iy>=<[tex]\Phi[/tex]1|x+iy|[tex]\Phi[/tex]2>

FYI, I'm trying to understand how radiation is polarised (an external B field polarises radiation, so we must consider the dipole transition matrix thus:

<r>=<[tex]\Phi[/tex]1|r|[tex]\Phi[/tex]2>

so I am simply resolving 'r' into two components (in the xy plane and z axis).
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The only hard part in the calculation is knowing [tex]\left\langle r \right\rangle[/tex],
from which
[tex]x = r \sin\theta \cos\varphi[/tex]
[tex]y = r \sin\theta \sin\varphi[/tex].
Can you think of a spherical harmonic equal to [tex]\sin\theta e^{i\varphi}[/tex]? Then you need to know how to compute [tex]\left\langle Y^\ell_m\right\rangle[/tex], which is easy enough for simple cases, but if you want you can consult a table of 3-j symbols.

That should be all that you need.

Good luck.
 
aah, that's clever. thanks Ibrits.

for hydrogen like wavefunctions, x+iy=[tex]\sin\theta e^{i\varphi}[/tex]=Y(l=1,m=1) so yeah its just the expectation of that.

what about the expectation of z?
 
I assume you know the representation of [tex]z[/tex] in spherical coordinates. I also assume you have a table of spherical harmonics handy. It shouldn't be hard to figure the rest out =)
 
oh i see, i was being really stupid (as per usual)... z=rcos(theta), so its just <r><Y1,0>. thanks:)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
7K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
6K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K