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The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

  1. Dec 22, 2015 #1

    Ryan_m_b

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    WARNING! This thread contains spoilers for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. If you have not yet seen the movie, we strongly encourage you to turn around and return once you have.

    It seems like a good idea to branch off a new thread from the old one to prevent spoilers (on that subject what is wrong with people these days? The effort some people went to online to spoil the film for those who hadn't yet seen it was horrendous).

    So getting into it, things I really liked:

    1) Acting, the new characters were relatable, lovable and had great chemistry

    2) The aesthetic was great. Most scenes looked and sounded awesome.

    3) Storms troopers actually frighten me a bit now!

    4) Not everything was explained, we don't need to know exactly what the republic is doing or who is who

    5) The world felt like a believable continuation of the originals. This is one of the big ones for me, the end of Return of the Jedi felt very fairy tale. They kill the main bad guy and the whole galaxy is suddenly free? No one stepped up to take his place and keep the empire going? Having the empire still around in a more broken form with a fledgling republic was great.

    How about you?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2015
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  3. Dec 22, 2015 #2

    Borg

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    I read one spoiler and regretted it. I'll come back after I've seen the movie tomorrow. :wink:
     
  4. Dec 22, 2015 #3

    Orodruin

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    Do not read this post if you have not seen the movie yet! I mean it! Seriously, don't! You will regret it.

    Overall I was really impressed and I liked the movie a lot. For me, it strikes the exact correct note with the correct mix of seriousness, mystery, and comedy found in the original trilogy. Some of the things I liked the most:
    1. Rey. (!) Amazing main character. Is probably the strongest untrained natural force user I have seen in any movie or computer game. Potential to become a great jedi rivalling Yoda, Sidious, Revan, Satele Shan, etc, in terms of power. Clearly stronger than Luke in Ep IV, she manages to shut out Kylo Ren and even extract his fears, she succeeds with the jedi mind trick as well as telekinesis. I have a pretty strong feeling that her actual last name happens to be Skywalker (I could talk for pages and pages about this).
    2. The visuals. JJ Abrams is a genius. All of the environments were amazing and had the genuine Star Wars feel. Placing the X-wing vs TIE fighter battles in broad daylight rather than in space was a good move.
    3. Captain Phasma's armour looks amazing. Wish we would have seen more of it.
    4. They did not make any fuzz about the parentage of Kylo Ren. It was simply stated as a fact and not a mystery which I think makes it significantly more realistic. Now we still do not know the details of exactly what happened, but we can speculate.
    5. The fact that they used real props and not too much CG effects. The fact that BB-8 is an actual physical droid is just wonderful and just gives a lot more credibility to the actors.
    Some things I did not like too much:
    1. Supreme leader Snoke: Hello Gollum!
    2. Starkiller base: They even say it in the movie, it is a new Death Star - just bigger and meaner. I liked how it exploded into a star though.
    3. Whatever happened to captain Phasma???
    Nothing of this destroys the movie for me though. I am seeing it again tomorrow!
     
  5. Dec 22, 2015 #4

    micromass

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    Is nobody bothered that they just took the plots the older movies and rehashed it. Come on guys, come up with something new...
     
  6. Dec 22, 2015 #5

    Ben Niehoff

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    Trailers these days basically ARE spoilers, especially if you want to combine several different trailers released in different parts of the world, so I don't much see the point of a separate thread. But anyway, starting with what I said in the other thread:

    I saw it on Sunday. I really like the new characters. I kinda wish the old ones had less screen time. And I didn't quite understand the political situation...I feel like they could have spent the opening crawl filling in some necessary background information about what the conflict is, rather than talking about Luke Skywalker. (Indeed, there was never any mention of why it is so important to find Luke Skywalker.)

    It felt like this movie was mostly exposition, and the actual story didn't pick up till near the end. But I have high expectations of the next movie.

    And since this is officially the spoiler thread, a bit more detail:

    I thought a great deal of it didn't make any sense. OK, the First Order are the remnants of the Empire, that's fine. They've gone into hiding (except everyone happens to know exactly where they are anyway). The New Republic has set up their new government after the fall of the Empire, but...they're just kinda ignoring the First Order? Why exactly? And there's this group called the Resistance who exist for what reason exactly? What are they "resisting"? Is there some sort of political reason that the New Republic can't openly go about the business of cleaning up the remnants of the Empire? I guess we'll never know, because the seat of the New Republic's power was wiped out by a star-powered space-laser before you even get to meet them and figure out what they're all about.

    Speaking of which, why does the First Order have a star-system-obliterating space-laser just sitting around, ready to destroy the New Republic at the push of a button, but they haven't decided to use it until now? Also, why do they continue making the same mistakes in designing these kinds of things? This one was even easier to destroy than the two Death Stars. At least when they built the second Death Star, they added more defenses.

    And, as I asked before, why does everyone so desperately need to find Luke Skywalker? Were the Resistance aware that the First Order might point their space-laser at them? Given the thing only takes about 20 minutes to charge, if they presumed Luke Skywalker might be able to help them, what made them think they had the time to be looking for him? The opening text mentions Luke Skywalker's name 3-4 times, but only to say he's lost, and nobody can find him, and different variations on that theme. Nothing to say why he might be important. And nothing to explain who the main factions are and what the main conflict is about.

    More questions. What is Han running from? Leia's not angry with him or anything when they see each other again. So why hasn't he seen her in years?

    Basically, I think the cameo insertions made no sense. Or rather, I think Han and Leia should have had way less screen time, in order to focus on the new characters who are driving the story. Also, the Han and Leia scenes, and the Han death scene all felt flat. Overall, there were way too many recycled lines (but on the other hand, you do have to have "I have a bad feeling about this").

    That said, I thought the new characters were brilliant. Well, at least Rey and Finn. And Poe, but they never explained how he survived that crash, so it seemed really contrived. I thought Kylo Ren was a bit pathetic. We've already seen Anakin Skywalker; it would have been nice to have a non-recycled persona. Once the story finally picked up (probably about 90 minutes in), it was really great.

    I'm looking forward to the next movie, which I hope will be about the adventures of Rey, Finn, and Poe and their quest to find the evil dudes pulling the galaxy's puppet strings with their space-lasers. Nobody has lost a limb yet, so I assume that's on its way.
     
  7. Dec 22, 2015 #6

    micromass

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    To continue:

    1) I know these movies aren't supposed to be realistic. But now they go too far. That planet which they blow up at the end is supposed to be huge, right? Way bigger than the death star. So Rey is somewhere on the planet. So they show up in the Millenium Falcon and they find her like immediately. She could be anywhere on a huge planet and they find her immediately! Same thing in the beginning when they're searching for the droid. There are too many coincidences like this.

    2) A completely untrained force-user like Rey beats Kylo Ren who has been training for probably his entire life. Really? I get that they wanted like this great climatic battle at the end, but come on. There's no way she should have won.

    3) They have not really said why finding Luke was so important. They like throw it out there that they need to find Luke. OK, cool I guess. And why at the end does only Rey go to Luke? The resistence has been searching for Luke for a long time, and at the end they let this girl whom they've only known for a couple of days, go and seek him alone (ok, with Chewbacca, I guess). Who constructed this "map to Luke" anyway? So many things that aren't really told.

    4) Kylo Ren was really really cool. Until he took off his mask, and they was this whiny brat. Ah well.
     
  8. Dec 22, 2015 #7

    Ben Niehoff

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    Oh, one more gripe: That was probably the least emotional planetary obliteration I've ever seen in a movie. We, the viewers, have basically zero connection to the people on those planets, since they were never introduced to us at all. And the characters in the movie have no emotional connection to them either. Nobody's family appears to be on those planets, or anything. Nobody's lover is even mistaken for being on those planets. We just see a bunch of generic city-dwellers moments before they explode, and I guess we're supposed to go "Oh, the humanity", but without any personal investment in it...
     
  9. Dec 22, 2015 #8

    micromass

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    To expand on this. This is really why I loved the original trilogy. Throughout the three movies, you have a really naive guy like Luke facing very strong and experienced people. There is no way Luke could actually defeat Darth Vader, and nowhere (except the very end), he could. In their first battle in "The empire strikes back", Darth Vader was basically toying with Luke. It was no challenge at all. The only way Luke defeated Vader at the end was because he got angry and almost gave into the dark side. This was really brilliant.
    But now you have these untrained brats defeating very experienced guys already. Well, sure... Kind of ruins things for me.

    And really? How many planet-destroying things have we had now that had obvious weaknesses? These bad guys really suck at constructing basic defenses...
     
  10. Dec 22, 2015 #9

    Ben Niehoff

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    This I'm willing to live with. I think Chewie had some vague idea of where she was, and it's conceivable that they have ways of tracking things.

    Yeah, I thought it was odd. I think the idea was to show that the Force is strong in her, and she was able to draw on it in a time of stress. But I'm not sure if it was communicated well.

    I think they meant to imply that Luke created the map to Luke. Which makes his hiding a lot less effective. Especially since R2D2 already had most of the map, they could probably just limit their search to the blank portion and have a decent chance. Actually, since it is also implied that the First Order had R2's portion of the map, I'm a bit baffled why this movie wasn't a race to track down Luke rather than a race to destroy Death Star 3.

    Yeah, I think they should have worked on that a bit more.
     
  11. Dec 22, 2015 #10

    micromass

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    Well, star wars is kind of doing that for a long time. Not that I disagree with you. But the destruction of Alderaan wasn't that emotional either. Yeah, I get that there were some more reasons why we should care about Alderaan than here, but it was still pretty unemotional.
    And then you have the battle of Naboo in the first episode, or the clone wars in the 2nd and 3rd episode. There is this war between two sides. But never do we see the actual consequences of the war. I don't think I've ever seen a normal citizen of Naboo. Hard to care about those wars and those planets then.
    So in my opinion, this destruction was nothing worse or better than what star wars has been doing for a long time.
     
  12. Dec 22, 2015 #11

    Ben Niehoff

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    Well, OK, but Leia is Princess of Alderaan, and Darth Vader makes her watch, and she begs, and cries, etc. Whereas in this movie, they all look up in the sky and go "Whoops, there goes another planet".
     
  13. Dec 22, 2015 #12

    micromass

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    Sure, I get all of that and I agree. But overall it was still a pretty unemotional moment in my opinion.
     
  14. Dec 22, 2015 #13

    Orodruin

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    Personally I like that they do not spell everything out as if the audience were mindless zombies needing to have everything put in print. There are a few hints about the reason being the fall of Ben Solo to the dark side.

    This taps into my point above. Rey is probably the most natural force user in the Star Wars universe seen to this date. Apart from this, Kylo Ren is emotionally torn, injured, and not fully trained (as spelled out explicitly by Snoke).

    Why would you not send Luke's daughter to pick him up?

    Which, again, I consider to be a good thing! I do not want the director to treat me as if I had no imagination whatsoever. Add to that the fact that there are several more movies coming up.

    R2 was essentially powered down, preprogramed to activate only once Luke's daughter showed up. They could not access the map R2 had.

    Technically, the one who made Leia watch (and gave the order) was grand moff Tarkin, not Vader.
     
  15. Dec 22, 2015 #14

    Ben Niehoff

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    My point is that it was poor storytelling. The characters' actions didn't seem motivated. This is part of why the Han/Leia scenes and the Han murder scene fell flat.

    I mean seriously, what was Han doing running around the galaxy? Just moping? It's not like he didn't know where Ben was or what he was doing.

    I don't think giving some sort of motivation for character actions is equivalent to treating the viewers like "mindless zombies".

    That will be very annoying if it turns out to be true. Why would Luke send her away to scavenge for scraps on a desert planet? Because it worked out so well for him and his dad?

    Sure, there are more movies, but it would be nice if they could at least partially stand up on their own. The real beauty of A New Hope is that Lucas didn't know if it would be successful, so he made sure the story was self-contained, while still leaving the possibility open for further development. In these modern iterations, it seems that since they know there will be more movies, it doesn't matter if they spend the majority of the film on exposition (while somehow still failing to explain the political situation...).


    I don't remember it specifically reacting to her presence...I think it was just the BB-8 droid in the room.
     
  16. Dec 22, 2015 #15

    Orodruin

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    R2 turns on at precisely the time Rey (and hence also BB-8) arrive. Now, we will have to presume that, since BB-8 is Poe Dameron's droid, the two droids met before. And who knows what astromech droids discuss among each other, BB-8 might have signalled that Rey had arrived. I am seeing it again tomorrow and I will have my eyes more open to details.

    I think there are just so many clues for this in (and outside) the movie that it is impossible to disregard it as a clear possibility. In fact, I would be surprised if it was not the case. As for Luke's reasons, we have yet to find out. After all, he did not have the chance to say a word in the movie. At least he left the second part of the map with a good friend with the instructions to give it to her when the time was right - just that this friend seemed to think it was necessary to give it to the Resistance.
     
  17. Dec 22, 2015 #16

    Ryan_m_b

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    I also liked the fact that not everything was spelt out, mainly because it's not too difficult to come up with reasons why (for most of them). I mean Leia and Han was pretty obvious, they even said "we lost our son. I went back to the only thing I was ever good at". Clearly the trauma of having a murderous son devastated them and destroyed their marriage. I thought they played it off quite well.

    RE Rey: her over coming Ren and quickly learning basic force moves is a great indicator (along with the title of the movie) that she is something extra special

    RE Luke: I interpreted that he was important because he is the last Jedi. Without him there's a lot lower chance of force sensitive individuals being trained and a new Light side order started to threaten the Dark side

    RE Star Killer base: yes it's another super weapon but I think it was still interesting enough itself. On top of that it didn't have the same weaknesses as the death star, they covered their weakness in a fortress! The only way Po could destroy it was hope someone blew a hole open for him.

    RE: R2D2 I did think it was silly he conveniently woke up. I assume Luke sent him a signal after sensing what happened.
     
  18. Dec 23, 2015 #17

    micromass

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    Rey being Luke's daughter? Wow, that would be an awful plot twist. It's probably true though. But come on.

    1) Here you have three generations of Skywalkers growing up in the desert as being non-important. They subsequently learn the Force and are seduced by the dark side. Do we really want to see this again? Can't they come up with something new other than telling the same story again?

    2) Are all the jedi's nowadays are Skywalkers and decendants? Why not some new people as Jedi? Why keep torturing the old stories and getting the same material from them?

    3) And my point remains on why they only send Rey to Luke. Sure, we may suspect that she's Luke's daughter. But nobody else in the movie knows that this is true. Nobody in the resistance suspects this. So why would the resistance let her go and nobody else?

    4) And yes, Rey is supposed to be extra special. But come on, she really shouldn't be able to beat a trained fighter like this. It kind of ruins the entire story for me. And she also shouldn't be able to fix every ship she goes into. Must have been the force telling her how to fix things I guess.

    Sure, this has been an enjoyable movie. I liked it. But if it wasn't a part of the star wars franchise, I would probably not bother with the sequels. The movie just doesn't stand on its own.
     
  19. Dec 23, 2015 #18
    This bothered me. He looked super CGI.
     
  20. Dec 23, 2015 #19

    Orodruin

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    When they tried that people said they wanted something closer to the original. I believe this is actually what most Star Wars fans want. You and Ben are the only ones I have encountered who did not like it.

    This is definitely not true. I would say there are a great number of people who do know - I just rewatched it and looked for the clues. Han knows, Maz Kanata knows, Kylo Ren knows, Leia knows.

    The fact remains that Kylo Ren was definitely not in his prime condition and, while trained, is not fully trained.

    But it was never supposed to and neither was The Empire Strikes Back, still many hold it as the best in the entire franchise. Is the plot reused? Yes. Does it bother me? Not really. I think this movie brought the franchise back from the abyss created by the prequel. The sceneries, the dialogue, and the humor all remind me of the original trilogy - and that is exactly what people wanted.
     
  21. Dec 23, 2015 #20

    Orodruin

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    I am not bothered by the CGI as much as I was bothered by the fact that he looks like a 10 m tall copy of Gollum. On the other hand, I never complained that Indiana Jones looks like Han Solo ...
     
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