The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

[axmls]

I've just watched the movie for the second time. I have to say, Kylo Ren has won me over. At first I didn't think he was a great villain. Some initial complaints:

1. Too sappy
2. Had a tough time fighting an untrained Jedi and a storm trooper

However, rewatching it, I really see that he's a much deeper villain. After all, let's not forget that Vader couldn't watch Luke die, by Kylo Ren actually brought himself to kill Han. As for the second point, I realized that not only was he shot by Chewy's bowcaster before the fight (Han was impressed by its power and it sent stormtroopers flying back about 5 feet), but he also is clearly playing around when fighting Finn (and even then, rewatching it, I see he really destroyed Finn). Only after his shoulder is cut does he (quickly) defeat Finn.

Now, for the big thing. I can't believe no one has mentioned this (this is to you Snoke detractors). The theory is that Snoke is Darth Plagueis (i.e. Palpatine's former master whom he claims to have killed in his sleep). Evidence:

Music playing when Palpatine is talking about his master:


Music playing when Snoke speaks:


Sorry, John Williams (and the Force) don't do coincidences. The Han and Leia theme play whenever they're together. The Force Theme plays when the force is mentioned. Kylo Ren's theme plays when he's onscreen. No one can make the claim that the similarities above are anything but pure design.

Aside from that, I thought the acting was great (except General Hux--I thought his acting was atrocious), the new music mixed with the old was wonderful, and the storyline was great. Loved the throwbacks to the originals, but I think the true test of this trilogy is how good the next movie is. Now that this trilogy has paid its respects to the originals, it's time to see if it has the ability to stand up as its own trilogy (let's be honest--desert planet, data hidden in droid, masked villain related to a main character, "death star" being destroyed--it certainly drew some things from A New Hope).

 

[axmls]

o expand on this. This is really why I loved the original trilogy. Throughout the three movies, you have a really naive guy like Luke facing very strong and experienced people. There is no way Luke could actually defeat Darth Vader, and nowhere (except the very end), he could. In their first battle in "The empire strikes back", Darth Vader was basically toying with Luke. It was no challenge at all. The only way Luke defeated Vader at the end was because he got angry and almost gave into the dark side. This was really brilliant.
But now you have these untrained brats defeating very experienced guys already. Well, sure... Kind of ruins things for me.

I know this is a late response, but do recall that Kylo Ren was shot in the stomach right before the fight. Furthermore, his shoulder was cut, he wanted to convert Rey (not kill her), and he had just killed his father. I'll cut him some slack in that fight. After all, we've seen earlier in the movie that the guy can stop blaster shots in mid air.

 

[GTOM]

Imho Finn could make a tiny cut, and Kylo stopped a shot was rather beginners luck, than skill. Kylo was still a student, and they said stor.troopers also have training for shock batony.

 

[axmls]

The novelization explicitly states Kylo was just messing around with Finn until his shoulder was cut, if I recall correctly. Also, Kylo was a student that managed to kill all the other students (also he was being trained by Snoke). Luke could probably have been considered a student when he beat Vader by that criteria.

 

[micromass]

I know this is a late response, but do recall that Kylo Ren was shot in the stomach right before the fight.

Right, but then the movie portrays this awfully.Because nowhere in the fight did I see him struggle with him just being shot. The movie portrays him as just being normal. Admit it, you didn't even think about "oh, he just got shot" during the light saber fight.
The fight would be better and more interesting if they would actually show him in pain and show him struggle with the wound he just received. Nowhere did we see any of that. So I call it bad movie making.

 

[GTOM]

The novelization explicitly states Kylo was just messing around with Finn until his shoulder was cut, if I recall correctly. Also, Kylo was a student that managed to kill all the other students (also he was being trained by Snoke). Luke could probably have been considered a student when he beat Vader by that criteria.

Kylo killed other kids who were unprepared and reluctant to kill. He had a good master, but not too much talent and mental stability. I guess Rey wasnt really a beginner, she is Lukes daughter and had training but tbey sealed her memories

 

[russ_watters]

Just popping in -- haven't read the thread yet, but just wanted to give my $0.02:

I saw it last week. I basically liked it. It was adequate and at least better than EP1, but I was somewhat disappointed that after 40 years they basically just changed the character and planet names from EP IV and updated the special effects. Couldn't they have come up with a different story after all that time (I thought GL already had?)?

Caveat: I realize that reboots are common and I realize that my age might bias me. People probably tend to like originals better than re-makes (and the rebooted superhero franchises every couple of years really annoys me: I haven't watched the recent Spiderman reboots) and I'm at the right age to have seen the originals as a kid. Today's kids haven't had that, so this is new to them, so I kinda get it. But I thought this was supposed to be a 9-part series.

 

[axmls]

Just popping in -- haven't read the thread yet, but just wanted to give my $0.02:

I saw it last week. I basically liked it. It was adequate and at least better than EP1, but I was somewhat disappointed that after 40 years they basically just changed the character and planet names from EP IV and updated the special effects. Couldn't they have come up with a different story after all that time (I thought GL already had?)?

Caveat: I realize that reboots are common and I realize that my age might bias me. People probably tend to like originals better than re-makes (and the rebooted superhero franchises every couple of years really annoys me: I haven't watched the recent Spiderman reboots) and I'm at the right age to have seen the originals as a kid. Today's kids haven't had that, so this is new to them, so I kinda get it. But I thought this was supposed to be a 9-part series.

That's true. In fact, one might say that the Force Awakens would be better if A New Hope was different. It's for this reason that I say how good the trilogy goes is based on how good the next movie is. I mean let's face it--after ~35 or so years, they were bound to spend a good chunk of the movie paying tribute to the original trilogy, with all the old characters reappearing and everything. Now that they've gotten the chance to bring back old characters and pay their tributes, they can actually work on turning the next movie into its own movie.

And of course, first and foremost, Star Wars is a trilogy revived mainly because it'll make Disney boatloads of cash, so it's not to be taken too seriously. I mean, I had some complaints about the movie personally, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fun watching it or that I won't rewatch it plenty of times in the future.

 

[russ_watters]

...with all the old characters reappearing and everything. Now that they've gotten the chance to bring back old characters and pay their tributes, they can actually work on turning the next movie into its own movie.

Well, I do actually like the character continuity, it just didn't seem quite as circular for the first 6 movies. But it looks to me like we'll be seeing at least a lot of Luke in the next movie. If we're following the EP5 plot, he needs to train Rey and then die while the Empire First Order is regrouping and striking back.

I mean, I had some complaints about the movie personally, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fun watching it or that I won't rewatch it plenty of times in the future.

Yeah, I'm definitely in for the rest of the trilogy and will buy it on blu-ray.

 

[DennisN]

And of course, first and foremost, Star Wars is a trilogy revived mainly because it'll make Disney boatloads of cash [...],.

...which prompted me to inform Star Wars fans in this thread (who may be unaware of this) that there are also plans for what they call "Anthology films":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars#Anthology_series

From what I understand, filming of Rogue One has been going on for a while. I think it could become interesting, I like the basic story idea of the film...

 

[DiracPool]

From: https://www.yahoo.com/movies/harrison-ford-passes-samuel-l-jackson-to-become-172650916.html

"(Harrison) Ford has sequels to Indiana Jones and Blade Runner on the horizon, and it’s possible that he may appear in Star Wars: Episode VIII, as currently listed on the actor’s IMDb page."

How does one survive being run through by a light saber and then tossed off a bridge into an abyss? Or are they going to bring him back with some sort of "Search for Spock" type katra?

 

[axmls]

From: https://www.yahoo.com/movies/harrison-ford-passes-samuel-l-jackson-to-become-172650916.html

"(Harrison) Ford has sequels to Indiana Jones and Blade Runner on the horizon, and it’s possible that he may appear in Star Wars: Episode VIII, as currently listed on the actor’s IMDb page."

How does one survive being run through by a light saber and then tossed off a bridge into an abyss? Or are they going to bring him back with some sort of "Search for Spock" type katra?

My guess would be some kind of flashback.

Interesting fact: I read Mark Hamill got paid in the low seven figures for the film.

That's right. Over a million dollars to turn around and look at the camera.

 

[DennisN]

Speaking of money...

According to Box Office Mojo, The Force Awakens is now at #1 (all time domestic gross), and at #4 (all time worldwide gross). Will it beat Avatar? It is also the fastest growing movie ever (all nine categories from $100 to $500 million). And looking at domestic grosses (adjusted for ticket price inflation) is clear evidence of the incredible success of the Star Wars franchise; considering the top 20 movies, 5 of them (!) are Star Wars movies.

 

[DiracPool]

That's right. Over a million dollars to turn around and look at the camera.

Yeah, but it's the way he turned Plus, didn't he flip back his hoodie? That's worth 150 grand right there.

 

[axmls]

Speaking of money...

According to Box Office Mojo, The Force Awakens is now at #1 (all time domestic gross), and at #4 (all time worldwide gross). Will it beat Avatar? It is also the fastest growing movie ever (all nine categories from $100 to $500 million). And looking at domestic grosses (adjusted for ticket price inflation) is clear evidence of the incredible success of the Star Wars franchise; considering the top 20 movies, 5 of them (!) are Star Wars movies.

That's what happens when you combine extensive merchandising and appeal to three generations of people who grew up (or are now growing up) with their own Star Wars trilogy.

 

[_PJ_]

I read from too many people, that it is actually a remake of New Hope, with barely different storyline. Could you give me any good reason, why should i watch this in movie?

It's a reboot for a new generation, but because Disney also had a whole crowd of middle aged fans from the 1978 movie as well as the youngsters that 'enjoyed' possibly some parts of the 'prequels' AND an unimaginably huge horde of cult followers with which an amount of canon and re-released merchandise had to be maintained - so they provided a fresh revisioning but in serilialised format.
Honestly, I had no intention of watching it until maybe later when it was on TV , but tickets were a Christmas present and I was not disappointed. Admittedly I had rather conserved hopes, but overall I was actually pleasantly surprised with the freshness of the movie, despite the obviously familiar tropes.
Will you enjoy it?
Only you can really answer that. How invested are you in the franchise, in the other movies, in the canon or in the continuation of the brand?

They also said it was ridicolous, how close Han jumped to Death Planet. If jump is possible in the presence of strong gravity, that ruins the whole consistency of the world, rebels could have simply jumped away from the surface of planets, when imperials came.

It's a Star Wars fairy tale/fantasy like all the others, If anyone had wanted to provide any scientific plausibility or physical adherence then I'm sureLucas would have done so from the start. Basically, you shouldn't be expecting any less than high fantasy as with most other pop-culture movies.

 

[ODST]

Snoek in Dutch means pike fish, snoke, snoek? Jar Jar is of the gungan species, which is an aquatic race... Darth Jar Jar?!

Now, for the big thing. I can't believe no one has mentioned this (this is to you Snoke detractors). The theory is that Snoke is Darth Plagueis (i.e. Palpatine's former master whom he claims to have killed in his sleep). Evidence:

I do feel the force awakens fell flat with the story, though the cast did a great job. I think though that the next movie will be amazing... and I look forward to more of Darth Snokes, and what his story is...

 

[George Jones]

I haven't read this thread yet.

My wife, my nine-year-old daughter, and I went to see this movie last night. We all loved it. I was a bit surprised by my wife's reaction, as she claims that she doers not like sci fi stuff. My daughter was absolutely thrilled; this was only the second movie that she has seen in a theatre, and we don't have a TV at home. I was taken back to a different place in space and time, to when as a teenager I saw the original Star Wars release several thousand kilomteres form where we saw The Force Awakens last night.

 

[rcgldr]

For me the issue is dealing with Rey. They may have Rey turn out to be Luke's daughter or otherwise related to the Skywalker family, but considering she develops force sensitivity so quickly, faster than any previous Skywalker, it would make more sense to have her story be similar to Anakin, where the "force" decided to create another person powerful with the force, perhaps to compensate for Anakin.

As for Rey's force sensitivity, I think that the scene where she's being interrogated is more important than the fight with Kylo. In a matter of minutes, she's able to repel Kylo's mind powers and reaches into his mind. One comment about the fight scene, is that in the second encounter, she's able to hold off Kylo for a brief pause to relax and further increase her powers in just a few seconds. This should be an issue, Rey's rate of progress is much faster than any other Jedi we've seen before, so even if Kylo gets the best dark side training possible, the disparity between Rey's superior powers over Kylo should just get greater over time. By the time of the next movie, Rey should be like the class 5 Jean in the X-Men series with nearly unlimited powers.

My guess is that next movie in the series will be a bit of a let down. It won't be the first time in the series. After Episode 6, since Leia remembers her mother while she was young, an explanation for why Padme chose to be with Leia and not Luke should have been explained, but then Lucas avoids this by changing the story line and killing off Padme at child birth. Then there's the issue with Anakin only being able to see enough into the future that Padme's life is in danger, but not that he's the cause, a bit too convenient, just enough force sensitivity to match the story line. And you have to wonder why Emperor that had used Anakin's fear of losing relatives to get him to turn to the dark side thought it would be a good idea to kill Anakin's son while Anakin watched.

 

[DHF]

I just recently watched this movie with my family, I was actually going to wait until it was on Amazon Prime but my younger son contracted Star Wars Fever and begged us to see it. Like others who grew up with the originals and later suffered through Ep1,2&3... I went in with low expectations. I was however pleased, yes there are plenty of plot holes but show me a sci fi movie that doesn't. Yes They went through all the same beats as the original but managed to keep it feeling fresh however. I really enjoyed Rey and Fin although I really feel they could have done more with his character, he had a very powerful story to tell. My wife mentioned after the movie that what was missing was Finn, after encountering his old caption again was to demand that she take her helmet off so he could look her in the eyes. So they could have expanded on him more but maybe they will later on.

On the subject of the Captain, I too feel she caved WAY to easy to lower the shields and did so at the first threat, she should not have caved, Like Finn, she would have been raised and conditioned and should never have buckled. To get around this they could have restructured the scene so that they find Rey first then they encounter the captain, when she refuses to give into their demands, Rey could have used her not-yet-a-Jedi mind tricks on her.

The one part of this film that I really couldn't get behind was Kilo Ren, in my opinion he was the least effective villain ever. He started off fairly intimidating but then he took off the mask and its like all the intimidation leaked out. For the rest of the film he came off as a simpering brat and while yes you can argue that he is not not fully trained and has mommy and daddy issues, in the end it does not make for a good villain if all you want to do is flick him in the ear and tell him to go to his room. the battle between him and Rey however was very nice and I loved the scene when she used the force to claim her saber from Ren. See if he wasn't a brat and just picked it up with is hands the movie would have been over but no he had to try and force grab it, for crying out loud he was what... One, maybe two meters away from it? See? Spoiled Brat.

On a final note, not that it had any impact on the movie but my wife wondered about Rey's light saber, She was told that it was her Father's yet it is blue, Luke Saber at the end of Jedi was Green. The blue one, the one Obi-wan gave Luke, that one was blue, it was also however plunged into an abysses along with Luke's hand courtesy of Papa Vader. So where exactly did this Blue saber come from?

 

[Orodruin]

So where exactly did this Blue saber come from?

It is the blue saber that was Anakin's and was handed down to Luke by Obi-Wan. Its story from Bespin to Maz is unknown as far as I am aware, but most certainly an interesting one.

 

[DHF]

It is the blue saber that was Anakin's and was handed down to Luke by Obi-Wan. Its story from Bespin to Maz is unknown as far as I am aware, but most certainly an interesting one.

I would say that it is impossible that it survived the fall to the center of a gas giant but then again we are talking about magic swords in a universe with the Force so I guess anything is game.

 

[Orodruin]

I would say that it is impossible that it survived the fall to the center of a gas giant but then again we are talking about magic swords in a universe with the Force so I guess anything is game.

Just because Luke went that way does not mean the saber did.

 

[DHF]

I will concede to that. There is the remote chance that it got stuck somewhere in the bowels of cloud city rather then falling out into the atmosphere.

 

[Orodruin]

I will concede to that. There is the remote chance that it got stuck somewhere in the bowels of cloud city rather then falling out into the atmosphere.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Skywalker's_lightsaber

 

[DennisN]

I will concede to that. There is the remote chance that it got stuck somewhere in the bowels of cloud city rather then falling out into the atmosphere.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...and-world-affairs.589024/page-41#post-5339510

 

[DHF]

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...and-world-affairs.589024/page-41#post-5339510

OK that was bad, I am getting over a cold and can't take deep breaths yet and laughing is a dangerous affair...that link nearly killed me.

 

[Ibix]

So I finally got time to go and see it. I think I must be the only person on the planet who hadn't seen it - I was literally alone in the theatre.

I liked that it had characterisation, dialogue, good acting and chemistry, all notably lacking from the prequel trilogy. I thought the opening with the Star Destroyer eclipsing the planet was pretty much perfect - a call back to A New Hope while being completely new. Shame the rest of the plot was more or less what we'd seen before. Starkiller Base was a nice touch - Luke is called Luke Starkiller in early drafts of A New Hope. The Imperials generally have brains - even the Stormtroopers act like competent soldiers, reacting rapidly and sensibly to the warning of incoming X-wings. They still can't hit the broad side of a barn, though, where the heroes miss maybe three shots in the whole film.

To add to the "who is Rey" debate - did anyone else note that "when you're desperately trying to sleep at night, the place you go, the ocean and the island" (or something like that) that Kylo Ren forces (hah, see what I did there?) out of Rey is a dead on description of the place she finally meets Luke? Regarding her skills with the Force - she picks everything up quickly when she's around someone who knows what they're about. Her assessment of the problems with the Falcon exactly matches Han's to the point that she completes his sentences. She understands Chewie, BB8, and Teedo, plus Basic/English - that's four languages. She picks up on what Kylo Ren is doing to her when he tries to mind-rape the map out of her, and then uses that on him and the guard, but uses no other Force skills until Kylo Ren tries to Force pull her lightsaber to him - whereupon she learns that trick. Then she's in a lightsaber duel with a (semi-)trained opponent. Whereupon she's suddenly at his level (though he's off his game after murdering his dad and being shot by Chewie's bowcaster). I think she picks things up directly from people around her.

Things I didn't like. Why did the Captain with the cool armour just turn off the shields for them? The Stormtroopers generally seem to be supposed to be "death first!" kind of people. And why does a captain of infantry even know how to turn off the shields, let alone have the authority to do it? Kylo Ren became whiny and annoying when he took of his mask - kind of like a teenage Snape. JJ Abrams still clearly has no concept of scale. Somehow the final attack on Starkiller Base was not as gripping as the trench run from A New Hope. I think there's something about the way the old one is filmed - cutting between the action and watching helplessly from Yavin IV, Leia's reaction when she thinks Luke's been killed early on, and the graphic of the moon slowly appearing from behind the gas giant.

 

[DennisN]

Nice review, Ibix .

Sorry, I could not resist commenting on...

So I finally got time to go and see it. I think I must be the only person on the planet who hadn't seen it - I was literally alone in the theatre.

"Episode VII
IBIX AWAKENS

The audience has vanished. In its absence, the sinister
FIRST PROJECTIONIST has risen from the ashes of
the IMAX theatre and will not rest until Ibix, the last viewer,
has seen the movie.."

 

[DennisN]

To add to the "who is Rey" debate - did anyone else note that "when you're desperately trying to sleep at night, the place you go, the ocean and the island" (or something like that) that Kylo Ren forces (hah, see what I did there?) out of Rey is a dead on description of the place she finally meets Luke?

Yes, I noted that too.