The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

[micromass]

 

[Ryan_m_b]

RE the map just looking at it it didn't appear to me to be a realistic map, more like a symbolic one. It does after all show giant representations of star systems next to tiny dots of starts and some images are just of planets. As for how it pinpointed the island remember that it wasn't really a map to Luke, it was a map to the first Jedi temple (which is where Luke had said he'd gone to find).

 

[micromass]

I think this one is fairly self-evident - Leia, like her brother, is force sensitive and this is a very emotional event with her son killing his father.

Meh, seems way too convenient. If she is force sensitive, why don't we see her do anything force related? Sure, "she's probably very weak with the force" seems like a good excuse. But to me it just sounds like sloppy writing to suddenly make her force sensitive when it makes for a good movie scene.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Leia showed her force sensitive abilities in the original trilogy too. At the end of Jedi Han says something like "do you think Luke made it out" and she gazes off mysteriously and says she's sure he did.

 

[micromass]

If anyone cares, this is explained in sources outside of the movie, and some details inside the movie. There is apparently a new book and comics that go into detail. Basically after the end of Ep 6 the Republic forms and continues fighting the remnants of the Empire. At some point the First Order appears as part of this, doesn't say if its everything or if there are other factions. A long war ensues and eventually a peace treaty is signed. The first order is not in hiding. Leia decides that the war isn't over and doesn't trust the first order, so she establishes The Resistance to continue fighting them, some in The Republic fund her.

Thank you very much. This makes more sense. It's good to have this explanation.
But sadly enough, all that matters to me are the movies. The movies should be entirely self-contained. You shouldn't be reading entire books to know the actual background. This was the problem with the prequels too. They made no sense what-so-ever and a lot of things were explained only outside the movies.

 

[micromass]

Leia showed her force sensitive abilities in the original trilogy too. At the end of Jedi Han says something like "do you think Luke made it out" and she gazes off mysteriously and says she's sure he did.

OK. So she only is able to use the force when it makes for a good movie scene, both here as in the original trilogy. Got it.

Somehow I was under the impression that after episode 6, Luke would train her and she would become a jedi. But apparently she's only able to tell whether somebody lived or died.

 

[Orodruin]

Well, it is wrong on one thing which they obviously could have skipped - Rey never meets Lars.

 

[Orodruin]

Thank you very much. This makes more sense. It's good to have this explanation.
But sadly enough, all that matters to me are the movies. The movies should be entirely self-contained. You shouldn't be reading entire books to know the actual background. This was the problem with the prequels too. They made no sense what-so-ever and a lot of things were explained only outside the movies.

So I can assume you have a similar problem with the Lord of the Rings movies?

 

[micromass]

So I can assume you have a similar problem with the Lord of the Rings movies?

Nope. The Lord of the Rings made perfect sense to me when I was watching it. They explained the background sufficiently. Of course, the books give way more details. But the movies stand on their own. When I watched the lord of the rings movies, I got the idea that there was a lot of background story that we weren't told, but that it was not really essential to the movie. In this star wars movie (and the prequels), I got the idea that there's a lot of background story that we weren't told, but this time it bothered me not to know some essential details.

 

[dipole]

It was a pretty bad movie. I'm not going to argue why, because people who go to watch movies to see a light-show aren't going to accept my critisicm, and star wars fans are going to enjoy it just because it has the name star wars, but as a work of cinema this was a very sub-par film.

 

[Ben Niehoff]

It was a pretty bad movie. I'm not going to argue why, because people who go to watch movies to see a light-show aren't going to accept my critisicm, and star wars fans are going to enjoy it just because it has the name star wars, but as a work of cinema this was a very sub-par film.

Ooh, this sounds interesting. What are your criticisms?

 

[JonDE]

I also don't buy the whole "we can't locate those stars on any of our maps" nonsense when they're able to see BB8's map piece.

Well if we are going to be picking apart the science of the movies, I didn't like the fact that the resistance could see each planet blowing up of the republics capital, when it was in an entirely different solar system. They were clearly separated in the sky, not even clustered together. I guess these two systems are very very close together.

 

[Orodruin]

Honestly, picking the science of the Star Wars universe apart is kind of moot. It is like doing the same to the Lord of the Rings universe or any other fantasy universe. Relativity obviously does not apply, but what do you expect from a universe where people can shoot lightning from their fingers?

 

[DennisN]

I've seen it now, and I enjoyed it very much. I agree with Ryan_m_bs original post. Here are my thoughts:

My pros:

Good humor, good cast, good new characters, good action, pretty good story. And I look forward to the upcoming movies. I liked Rey a lot, she is a character somewhat like Luke in the first movie, but there are differences. She seems a bit more competent and self-empowered, and not as eager to learn about the Force. I liked Finn too, a character type (defector) I have not seen before in the Star Wars saga. Poe Dameron was a cool guy, but I'd liked to have seen more of and about him in the film.

My cons:

No major cons. If you look for holes and inconsistencies such can also be found in the original series. My personal ranking of the original series is 1) The Empire Strikes Back 2) A New Hope and 3) Return of the Jedi.

The thing I disliked the most in the new movie is the Skywalker family focus;

Episode 4: Obi-Wan lies to Luke about his father (Anakin).
Episode 5: Darth Vader reveals himself as the father of Luke.
Episode 6: It is revealed that Luke and Leia are siblings, and thus both the children of Vader.
Episode 7: Kylo is the son of Leia and Han, and thus the grandson of Vader.

I would personally have preferred that Kylo was a new dark character on his own, and with his own completely independent story, rather than the son of Han and Leia. Come on, sure the Force runs strong in the family, but the Force is also always present, "surrounding every living thing". And Obi-Wan, Yoda, Palpatine and Snoke are not Skywalkers.

It's too early for me to rank it with respect to the original three movies, I have to see it a couple of more times. But it is IMO far, far better than any of the prequels, which I don't fancy at all. There was no Jar Jar, no Gungans, no midichlorians and no unsatisfactory versions of young Anakin/Darth. I enjoyed "The Force Awakens" a lot, the new characters were good and I was thoroughly entertained and I want to see more. So it gets a thumbs up from me.

On the other hand, I never complained that Indiana Jones looks like Han Solo ...

The difference in style I'm talking about is darker, grittier, more serious, and no midichlorians.

Midichlorians. Gosh, I remember I definitely did not like hearing about those pesky little rascals. Taking away the wonderful mystery of the Force*.
*

Spoiler

It's pretty obvious to me how the Force works. The Light Side is mediated by nonvisible photons via the electromagnetic field (hey, light = photons). The Dark Side obviously makes use of dark energy. This explains why the Dark Side can never be defeated entirely; as the Universe likely will expand forever, new Sith Lords will always reappear.

How is it that Leia was able to witness Han's death from light years away

The Force. With it you can explain everything... the movies are surrounded by the force, filling every plot hole.

Since they're recycling the plots, why didn't Kylo just encase his father in carbonite?

Somehow I was under the impression that after episode 6, Luke would train her and she would become a jedi. But apparently she's only able to tell whether somebody lived or died.

Spoiler

She is a passive force user. Whenever she tries to actively use the Force she gets premenstrual syndrome and blames Han Solo for everything. And then Han compensates by leaving her to go hang with Chewie and do deals with unsavory characters. Kylo could obviously not stand his dysfunctional family, so he left and got adopted by Snoke.

Well if we are going to be picking apart the science of the movies, I didn't like the fact that the resistance could see each planet blowing up of the republics capital, when it was in an entirely different solar system. They were clearly separated in the sky, not even clustered together. I guess these two systems are very very close together.

I remember reacting to this too, it felt unnecessary too close, but I quickly forgot about it during the movie.

Another thing which felt a bit strange to me, was that Leia and Rey seemingly naturally hugged when they finally met, even though they had not met before in the movie. Does Leia know who Rey is? Have they met before? Are they relatives? Maybe time will tell...

 

[Orodruin]

Does Leia know who Rey is? Have they met before? Are they relatives? Maybe time will tell...

My theory: Yes, yes, and yes.

With Rey being Luke's daughter, that makes Leia her aunt, sharing a family connection Force bond.

 

[FritoTaco]

Rey being Luke's daughter? Wow, that would be an awful plot twist. It's probably true though. But come on.

1) Here you have three generations of Skywalkers growing up in the desert as being non-important. They subsequently learn the Force and are seduced by the dark side. Do we really want to see this again? Can't they come up with something new other than telling the same story again?

2) Are all the jedi's nowadays are Skywalkers and decendants? Why not some new people as Jedi? Why keep torturing the old stories and getting the same material from them?

3) And my point remains on why they only send Rey to Luke. Sure, we may suspect that she's Luke's daughter. But nobody else in the movie knows that this is true. Nobody in the resistance suspects this. So why would the resistance let her go and nobody else?

4) And yes, Rey is supposed to be extra special. But come on, she really shouldn't be able to beat a trained fighter like this. It kind of ruins the entire story for me. And she also shouldn't be able to fix every ship she goes into. Must have been the force telling her how to fix things I guess.

Sure, this has been an enjoyable movie. I liked it. But if it wasn't a part of the star wars franchise, I would probably not bother with the sequels. The movie just doesn't stand on its own.

In my opinion, I doubt Rey is Luke's daughter. Although you're right about how she obtained the force and how fast it happened.

1. Those non-important Jedi's ended up dying I would expect sooner or later. Here, Rey is "strong" with the force so the story is mainly following her path because she will have a big role to fill. You may have been disappointed by the fact that it started on a desert just like how Anakin started on Tatooine but that's just a small detail.

2. A lot of people are predicting she is related from Luke but what evidence supports that?

3. I preferred she went alone. She finds him and possibly Luke trains her just how Kylo is being trained by someone else. Although, I agree once they found Luke's location, not even Chewbacca went up the mountain to see Luke. Just one of those movie scenes they wanted to have I guess. Which does (in my opinion) make the movie better.

4. She barely defeated Kylo somehow, but he was in training still, him fighting someone who naturally has the force must be a tough fight. I agree on how she fixes ships so well but we do 't know her back story.

This movie was spectacular! Lot's of questions remain but you can't say that didn't happen in Return of the Jedi. After watching it, I did wish they made the moving longer so we know more about the main characters because 2 hours and 10 minutes weren't enough. More needs to be told about Rey, Finn, and Poe. The movie producers obviously did this on purpose to get the audience thinking and wanting to see more when the next episode comes out.

 

[JonDE]

2. A lot of people are predicting she is related from Luke but what evidence supports that?

The trailer. They rehashed an old line from Return of the Jedi, and added to it. "The force is strong in my family, my father has it, I have it, my sister has it, and you have it." Of course he could be talking to Kylo in a flashback though, but it seems a weird phrase for that.

 

[_PJ_]

It certainly crossed my mind, that Rey could be Luke's daughter - She has the force, which the prequel movies established as a "genetic" or at least hereditary predisposition. However, when It is mentioned in TFA that Luke went to train a new order of Jedis, the interpretation was that those with such traits are not restricted to a few specific bloodlines, but indeed cannot be too common given Han Solo's famously questioned disbelief.

There's plenty of hints and potential for the connection, but largely these are due to the cinematography and obvious parallels with the Lucas movies. It wouldn't surprise me, if such conjecture and assumptions were not only expected, encouraged, but the purposeful result of intentional 'misdirection' - fter all, such ideas result in threads on forums such as this and the discussion generates further interest - all good marketing :)
Not trying to sound too "conspiracy-theorist", indeed such filmmaking tricks are actually well known and well used.

As for direct evidence, I don't believe there is anything at all substantial.

My theory: Yes, yes, and yes.

With Rey being Luke's daughter, that makes Leia her aunt, sharing a family connection Force bond.

No.

Rey got out of the MF. Leia therefore knew she was with Han et al. She had been informed of all the exploits so would be aware of Rey. That Rey arrived without Han told Leia everything she needed to know. The hug was a perfectly 'human' reaction given the circumstance**I hate to use the term, since there are no humans involved, but this stems from the concept that this reboot has taken the pure imaginative fantasy of the original Episode 4, and retold it with a 'down-to-earth' (see, it happened again) humanitarian - focus... That the people are important and their feelings and a sense of absolute morality.

 

[Orodruin]

No.

Yes, it is established in the Star Wars universe that being family increases the Force bond between two people, e.g., Luke and Vader. When the rebel strike team landed on the Endor moon, Vader could feel Luke's presence although Palpatine could not.

She had been informed of all the exploits so would be aware of Rey. That Rey arrived without Han told Leia everything she needed to know. The hug was a perfectly 'human' reaction given the circumstance*

But, as other have already stated in this thread, would not Chewbacca need that hug more? In addition, Chewbacca and Leia go way back as did Han and Chewie (even longer). This line of argumentation is simply weak unless Leia shares a more special connection to Rey - such as being aunt and niece.

However, when It is mentioned in TFA that Luke went to train a new order of Jedis, the interpretation was that those with such traits are not restricted to a few specific bloodlines, but indeed cannot be too common given Han Solo's famously questioned disbelief.

Yes, there are other force sensitives - after all, the original Jedi order was not made up of one family (which would be particularly difficult seeing that the Jedi order actively discouraged personal relationships). However, this clearly does not rule out the possibility that Rey is Luke's daughter - in particular as Force sensitives are rare. There are a lot of signs in the movie itself that Rey is more than your random force sensitive. This includes, but is not limited to: Han's reaction when he learns Rey has grown up on a desert planet (the next conversation they have he confirms his suspicion by asking her name and then immediately asking her to join his crew when it is confirmed). Maz's reaction to Rey and subsequent questioning of Han (to which we are not allowed to see the response). This is directly followed by Maz's conversation with Rey after her Force vision. Rey's attraction to the legacy light sabre. In this light, Leia's reaction to Rey - even if it might be reasonable without the connection, with the caveat that I think Leia would have cared more for Chewie - makes even more sense, as does the decision that Rey is the one sent to pick up Luke after the Resistance has been looking for him for a long time. Add small details such as Lars - clearly familiar with Leia and therefore more than likely also with Luke - just happens to have the second piece of the map and be on the same planet as Rey.

Of course, each detail on its own does not carry much weight - it is only when you start adding the pieces together that the picture becomes clearer. Naturally, we will not be able to either confirm or rule this out until the release of the next episode, but to me there is a stronger case for than against.

 

[_PJ_]

Yes, it is established in the Star Wars universe that being family increases the Force bond between two people, e.g., Luke and Vader. When the rebel strike team landed on the Endor moon, Vader could feel Luke's presence although Palpatine could not.

I'm not denying that families with the "force" predisposition can detect each other (Anakin and Shmi, Vader and Luke/Leia, Ben and Han etc. all evidenced) I just disagreed with the idea that Rey and Leia had any prior knowledge of each other.

The question was the evidence for Rey being Luke's daughter. All you have mentioned are correlations. There is nothing concrete, only conjecture and

Certainly, though I definitely agree that Rey has a "skywalker-strength" connection with the Force (Midichlorians off the scale and all that :S ) but being the undoubted 'heroine' of the movie, and potentially a major player for the next part of this trilogy, it stands to reason she would have to be a cut above.

Maybe I am being a little too conservative and harsh in my disregard of the points made (especially the mentions you made about Maz' discussion with Han, and Chewie being the one more deserving of a hug) I think it's because I am just being reluctant and not wanting to pin too much expectation hope. Bear in mind, too, that even directors sucha s Abrams can make some mistakes or forget certain details. Maybe Leia DID give chewie a big hug and they sat and hada drink and reminisced a while - but it was cut in the editing room because it just took too much time or spoilt the pace or something? Iä'm not saying this was the case, just using it as an example of a number of possibilities that aren't always apparent.

As you say, we shall just have to wait and see, but at least, if it turns out you are right, I will be happy that Rey is Luke's daughter, if it turns out I'm right, Iwill happy at guessing well! :D It will be worth the wait I'm sure!

 

[GTOM]

I read from too many people, that it is actually a remake of New Hope, with barely different storyline. Could you give me any good reason, why should i watch this in movie?

They also said it was ridicolous, how close Han jumped to Death Planet. If jump is possible in the presence of strong gravity, that ruins the whole consistency of the world, rebels could have simply jumped away from the surface of planets, when imperials came.

 

[DennisN]

I read from too many people, that it is actually a remake of New Hope, with barely different storyline. Could you give me any good reason, why should i watch this in movie?

It's entertaining. But I can not guarantee you'll like it, of course (I can't do jedi mind tricks).

They also said it was ridicolous, how close Han jumped to Death Planet. If jump is possible in the presence of strong gravity, that ruins the whole consistency of the world, rebels could have simply jumped away from the surface of planets, when imperials came.

Well, we are talking about a galaxy in which

• Lightsabers exist (how do they work?)
  
• Huge space stations can harness enough energy to destroy entire planets (pretty impressive, that station must have e.g. amazing rechargable energy cells)
  
• A farm boy can blow up such a huge space station flying a small fighter, using a mystical force he barely knows about
  
• A lot of different alien species coexist and many of them can breathe the same atmosphere/handle the same gravity
• Spaceships can fly into the bellies of large creatures which live on asteroids (breathing what?/feeding on what?)

etc.

My point is that science and realism were never the strengths of Star Wars. Adventure, story and characters were. In my opinion, Star Wars is sort of a mix of science fiction and science fantasy.

 

[tfr000]

Well, I've seen it.
I liked the older, wiser, mellower, more care-worn Han and Leia. That meshed with the old series very well.
The bigger, better "death star" was interesting just for its vastness, but it's the 3rd one now.
"Anakin" number two... I suppose it does play well that these young force-imbued punks might have a hard time with it. They used to have the Jedi to help them out with that, now they're kind of on their own.
Wasn't fond of the giant supreme leader thing. It reminds me of the old stop-action, super fake-looking effects from the old days. I hope we don't end up seeing lightning shooting out of his hands or something.
Speaking of effects, they just get better every year, don't they? For instance, the final destruction of the new "death star" was far closer to how I would expect such a thing to look. Speaking as someone who saw episode IV in the theater at age 15, those old effects look a little cheesy to me now.
The "science" of it... in the Star Wars universe, that kind of goes out the window when the first spaceship flies by making a growling noise. Just enjoy, don't over-think it. Like any myth (in the classical sense of the word), there's a strong element of fantasy.

 

[DiracPool]

I finally went and saw it at a Regal RPX in 3D. The RPX is Regal's version of IMAX. It was a fun movie, I liked it. I thought what was notable was how different the vibe of the movie was when Harrison Ford was in it and when he was not. It seemed like two different movies in one. One movie was when he was present, and the other movie, almost totally different, was when he was not. That's the sign of an actor that has impact. Since this has already been designated as a "spoiler" thread, do you think he really died by being impaled on the bridge? Hard to think that he survived that, but it's even harder to believe they wrote him out of the script for the next two movies.

Through the miracle of makeup, they were actually able to prop up a half-way presentable Carrie Fisher. She has not aged well. I read that she lost 30 pounds for the role, good for her. I guess she's also the brunt of fat jokes on the web, which I do not like. I think she looked pretty good in the movie considering...Unfortunately, though, they couldn't put makeup on her voice, which is pretty raspy and unfeminine, not like the princess Leia of old.

I've actually had dinner with Carrie Fisher at Debbie Reynolds house in the early 70's as a kid. Through some weird twist of fate, my dad somehow ended up being the private tutor to Todd Fisher when (my dad) was a graduate student at UCLA. They are actually still friends and he is on my dad's CC email list. I remember as a kid going over to Todd's house with my dad quite often. I remember it because Todd always had the new gadgets way before anyone else knew about them. For example, Todd had one of the first Pong games ever created. I couldn't believe it, you can actually interact with a TV? He also had one of the very first VCRs. Back in the mid 70's as a kid, this thing was mind blowing. Wow, you an actually record a show on TV? Anyone here alive in the 70's remember how our schedules revolved around the TV schedule. If there was a show on you wanted to watch, you had to prepare for it like a live event.

 

[davenn]

Huge space stations can harness enough energy to destroy entire planets (pretty impressive, that station must have e.g. amazing rechargable energy cells)

its was basically a Dyson sphere, there was some sort of small star at the centre that the energy was drawn from to power the weapon

 

[Rubidium_71]

I liked the movie as well. Great effects. Glad to see they didn't really discard the Expanded Universe, JJ is still getting some inspiration from it (this being influenced by the Jacen Solo story.) Without Lucas in the director's chair we got to see some good acting. It was a shame what he did to Natalie Portman in the prequels.
I liked Rey and look forward to seeing her train with Luke - my theory is she will turn out to be his daughter.
Kylo's force powers seemed a little uneven - he can stop blaster bolts, but he loses the saber duel with Rey so badly. She practically wiped the floor with him, proving he is not a true Sith Lord (at least not yet.) I'm sure that will be explained further as they go into the Knights of Ren or whatever it is.
There are some things I hope they do NOT include in the next two movies:
1) No more planet-killing stations (or plots that revolve around punching a small hole in them).
2) No more desert planets with scrappy upstarts.
3) No Darth Sidious stand-ins - the giant hologram scene was just too much of a Empire Strikes Back rip off and their mysterious leader looks pretty lame. Either resurrect Sidious or give us someone truly new and alien.
4) Kylo's face mask was ok, but the back end looked like a wee Vader helmet. Is he wreaking havoc with his lightsaber or is he trick or treating?
5) No more hidden maps in droids.
----------------------------------------------------------

Diracpool - "Anyone here alive in the 70's remember how our schedules revolved around the TV schedule."

I remember when TV went off the air. I mentioned this to some of my younger colleagues once and they were aghast at the concept.
"What do you mean TV went off the air??"
I told them after 10 or 11 pm the broadcast day ended until 5 or 6 the next morning. This went on in most places until the late 1980s/early 1990s. They were horrified.

 

[tfr000]

I remember when TV went off the air. I mentioned this to some of my younger colleagues once and they were aghast at the concept.
"What do you mean TV went off the air??"
I told them after 10 or 11 pm the broadcast day ended until 5 or 6 the next morning. This went on in most places until the late 1980s/early 1990s. They were horrified.

Yup. They used to play the Star Spangled Banner, or something, over a waving flag. Or was that when they came back on in the morning? ... it was a long time ago...

 

[GTOM]

I liked the movie as well. Great effects. Glad to see they didn't really discard the Expanded Universe, JJ is still getting some inspiration from it (this being influenced by the Jacen Solo story.) Without Lucas in the director's chair we got to see some good acting. It was a shame what he did to Natalie Portman in the prequels.
I liked Rey and look forward to seeing her train with Luke - my theory is she will turn out to be his daughter.
Kylo's force powers seemed a little uneven - he can stop blaster bolts, but he loses the saber duel with Rey so badly. She practically wiped the floor with him, proving he is not a true Sith Lord (at least not yet.) I'm sure that will be explained further as they go into the Knights of Ren or whatever it is.
There are some things I hope they do NOT include in the next two movies:
1) No more planet-killing stations (or plots that revolve around punching a small hole in them).
2) No more desert planets with scrappy upstarts.
3) No Darth Sidious stand-ins - the giant hologram scene was just too much of a Empire Strikes Back rip off and their mysterious leader looks pretty lame. Either resurrect Sidious or give us someone truly new and alien.
4) Kylo's face mask was ok, but the back end looked like a wee Vader helmet. Is he wreaking havoc with his lightsaber or is he trick or treating?
5) No more hidden maps in droids.
----------------------------------------------------------

Diracpool - "Anyone here alive in the 70's remember how our schedules revolved around the TV schedule."

I remember when TV went off the air. I mentioned this to some of my younger colleagues once and they were aghast at the concept.
"What do you mean TV went off the air??"
I told them after 10 or 11 pm the broadcast day ended until 5 or 6 the next morning. This went on in most places until the late 1980s/early 1990s. They were horrified.

With all theese errors, what was so great beside CGI?

 

[Rubidium_71]

GTOM - "With all theese errors, what was so great beside CGI?"

Like I said, I appreciated that they haven't truly cast aside the Expanded Universe Material completely (I am a fan of most of the EU stuff). The dialogue is very much improved by removing Lucas from the process. The items on my list are not "errors," just my personal preference on what I'd like to see as they produce SW8. As some others have pointed out in this thread, TFA's plot is somewhat derivative of A New Hope. It would be nice to see JJ get a little further away from that old formula in the next installment.
I liked seeing Han, Chewy and the Millennium Falcon again, too. Any movie can be enjoyable with room for improvement as well.

 

[Khashishi]

The movie looked nice and was exciting enough. But, the movie is too predictable. You know that the good guys are going to win. You know that every plan the good guys have will succeed in the nick of time, and the good guys are just unstoppable at every venture. There are no real setbacks, and no surprises except perhaps Han Solo. I guess that's why everyone loves Empire Strikes Back, since it (temporarily) breaks from the fairy tale machina. I'm not saying the good guys shouldn't win, but they do need to take some losses in the struggle.