Last week the Kochs were shoved unwillingly into the spotlight by the most comprehensive journalistic portrait of them yet, written by Jane Mayer of The New Yorker. Her article caused a stir among those in Manhattan’s liberal elite who didn’t know that David Koch, widely celebrated for his cultural philanthropy, is not merely another rich conservative Republican but the founder of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation, which, as Mayer writes with some understatement, “has worked closely with the Tea Party since the movement’s inception.” To New Yorkers who associate the David H. Koch Theater at Lincoln Center with the New York City Ballet, it’s startling to learn that the Texas branch of that foundation’s political arm, known simply as Americans for Prosperity, gave its Blogger of the Year Award to an activist who had called President Obama “cokehead in chief.”
Perspective? This psychopath Lee just attempts to blow up the Discovery building because there are too many 'filthy humans'; we have more than one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold" want to be poster here on PF stating that the guy was right. Given that, I'm reserving my "truly frightened" states for something other than a loopy Mormon who quit drugs and alcohol, holds what are effectively large church picnics, and is running for no political office.Evo said:Does anyone else feel truly frightened when they read stuff like this from people that are trying to hold positions of power?
The scary thing about that mix is that the nuts are quite motivated and they WILL go vote in the mid-terms. That's bad news for Democrats and possibly for Republicans facing Tea Party candidates running as independents in the mid-terms.Evo said:I understand that racism is still big in America. When you combine the white supremicst movement with the Evangelical movement, you've got quite a mix.
Right,by Frank Rich, a disgusting sack.edward said:They are Libertarians headed by the Koch billionaire brothers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html
The Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party
So the story is not true? The Koch brothers are NOT bankrolling the Tea Party? Ad-hom attacks on messengers do not invalidate their stories.mheslep said:Right,by Frank Rich, a disgusting sack.
It means I choose not to consider the assertions of an Op Ed piece by this particular agenda columnist, which is otherwise not a reliable PF source. Besides, the title is nonsensical. There's no way to 'bankroll' an amorphous group like the Tea Party. There's a DNC, and an RNC both with audited bank accounts. There is no 'TPNC, there's no elected leader of the TPNC, there's certainly no TPNC bank account.turbo-1 said:So the story is not true? The Koch brothers are NOT bankrolling the Tea Party? Ad-hom attacks on messengers do not invalidate their stories.
How about it?turbo-1 said:How about the New Yorker?
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer
That's not another news source, its a repeat of the Mayer story in the New Yorker.
mheslep said:It means I choose not to consider the assertions of an Op Ed piece by this particular agenda columnist, which is otherwise not a reliable PF source. Besides, the title is nonsensical. There's no way to 'bankroll' an amorphous group like the Tea Party. There's a DNC, and an RNC both with audited bank accounts. There is no 'TPNC, there's no elected leader of the TPNC, there's certainly no TPNC bank account.
The news today that Americans for Prosperity (AFP) is launching $500,000 worth of new TV ads in Arizona targeting Democratic Reps. Ann Kilpatrick, Harry Mitchell and Gabrielle Giffords is the latest indication that conservative group will be a major player in the November midterm elections.
mheslep said:How about it?
That's not another news source, its a repeat of the Mayer story in the New Yorker.
Which does not mention or use the phrase Tea Party. It does say, however,edward said:I just grabbed the first link that came up. There are many more. With all of the blogs we don't get the reliable sources that we used to find easily. The link has a hot link to the New Yorker and others.
Try this one.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/senate/who-is-americans-for-prosperit.html
Democrats, of course, have their own outside groups that also refuse to reveal their donor lists.
I didn't say that it did. Instead of making an argument through negatives, what do you say is going on based on the New Yorker article? You could start by acknowledging it does not make the hyperbolic assertion "Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party"edward said:The New Yorker did an investigative report. Do you really think that they just made up a buch of crap about a couple of billionaires?
Evo said:Does anyone else feel truly frightened when they read stuff like this from people that are trying to hold positions of power?
They're have been many documented waves of irrational beliefs held by the public. What's the particular concern about this one?Evo said:The divide I am seeing in this nation is frightening...These are the people that believe he's not American, and say he's Muslim and has ties to terrorism.
Perhaps the realization that the right-wing "media" are pushing the beliefs, AND the realization that there are groups of uneducated people willing to embrace them. When you have the senate minority leader saying on Meet the Press that Obama says that he is a Christian and that he will take him at his word, we have hit a new low. Even McCain didn't take that tack during the campaign.mheslep said:They're have been many documented waves of irrational beliefs held by the public. What's the particular concern about this one?
Oh, crazy people like this for starters.mheslep said:They're have been many documented waves of irrational beliefs held by the public. What's the particular concern about this one?
No I did not. Or at least I'd forgotten? <shrug> Didn't care enough to find out/remember. Thanks though for the blurb quote while we are on the subject.Gokul43201 said:For all you know. Did you not know that Beck is a Mormon?
I asked about about your comment on what's generally called 'birthers', not Beck:Evo said:Oh, crazy people like this for starters.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/tue-august-17-2010-dick-armey
Also, if you can listen to someone like Beck and not be horrified, I seriously doubt that there is anything anyone could say to make you see what is so scary to those of us that are.
I do not think these people are rational, and I don't think they could make rational decisions for the good of the people. I think they would make decisions based on their misguided beliefs regardless of the detriment to the general population. This is purely my opinion.
Yes I agree those birther beliefs are irrational. Again, why do you find them so out of the ordinary* as to be frightening, in an historical context? Without some rationale, all you have there is a dogma, ala: " if you don't believe as I do, without explanation, then nothing can be done..."Evo said:The divide I am seeing in this nation is frightening...These are the people that believe he's not American, and say he's Muslim and has ties to terrorism.
No, you didn't ask me about my opinion on "birthers". I wasn't talking about "birthers" specifically, I was talking in general about paranoid, crazy people that fear Obama. You apparently selected one item out of my entire post, but you didn't even state that until now.mheslep said:I asked about about your comment on what's generally called 'birthers', not Beck:
Yes I agree those birther beliefs are irrational. Again, why do you find them so out of the ordinary* as to be frightening, in an historical context? Without some rationale, all you have there is a dogma, ala: " if you don't believe as I do, without explanation, then nothing can be done..."
*Reminder: As late as 2007, more than http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance" of Democrats believed former Pres. Bush had a hand in 911, i.e. Truthers.
Arg. Ok, on the general subject of "paranoid, crazy people that fear Obama", then what is the particular concern about this group that is leads you fear for the country given the history of irrational beliefs in the public?Evo said:No, you didn't ask me about my opinion on "birthers". I wasn't talking about "birthers" specifically, I was talking in general about paranoid, crazy people that fear Obama. You apparently selected one item out of my entire post, but you didn't even state that until now.
Do you think this post deserves a reply? Do you deny that there is a well-funded right-wing mouthpiece (Murdoch, Armey, Kochs, for example) trying to demonize Obama? It's pretty obvious to anybody that is not living along that river called "de-Nile". When right-wing sources bash Soros, the neo-cons gleefully pile on. When some well-established media expose the machinations of the Koch brothers, you dismiss it out of hand. I think Edward put it well when he asked if some media sources would publish stories that were false or libelous against billionaires that could squash them like a bug. At some point, reality should intervene.mheslep said:Arg. Ok, on the general subject of "paranoid, crazy people that fear Obama", then what is the particular concern about this group that is leads you fear for the country given the history of irrational beliefs in the public?
Evo said:Oh, crazy people like this for starters.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/tue-august-17-2010-dick-armey
Also, if you can listen to someone like Beck and not be horrified, I seriously doubt that there is anything anyone could say to make you see what is so scary to those of us that are.
I do not think these people are rational, and I don't think they could make rational decisions for the good of the people. I think they would make decisions based on their misguided beliefs regardless of the detriment to the general population. This is purely my opinion.
It depends on the belief. Some irrational beliefs are very dangerous. When fear and/or hatred of others forms a basis for your beliefs and motivates your actions, it is very dangerous, IMO. When you decide that you have the right to dictate to others what they should believe and how they can live their personal lives when it does not affect the well being of others, it is very dangerous.mheslep said:Arg. Ok, on the general subject of "paranoid, crazy people that fear Obama", then what is the particular concern about this group that is leads you fear for the country given the history of irrational beliefs in the public?
But this divide does not seem to be totally rational, and the hyper polarization of view points (which frankly many on this thread are guilty of) is increasing this divide. In your post for example, you point out a commercial opposing Obama's healthcare reforms, and then go on to talk about some crazy internet commenters (which I agree there are a very large number of.)Evo said:The divide I am seeing in this nation is frightening. There was a political commercial on tv tonight calling for the end of Obamacare and to elect the person that will oppose Obama's reforms.
You see the comments by people that for reasons unknown manage to access the internet and post their comments to yahoo articles blaming Obama for everything. These are the people that believe he's not American, and say he's Muslim and has ties to terrorism.
I understand that racism is still big in America. When you combine the white supremicst movement with the Evangelical movement, you've got quite a mix.
There was no justification for opposing the healthcare plan other than it was tied to Obama. The commercial called it "Obamacare". That was not my term.Galteeth said:Reading your post, one might get the impression that you think that opposition to Obama's healthcare plan is on the same level of rationality as those who think that he is a secret muslim.
No, but if it's on again, I'll see who paid for it.CRGreathouse said:Evo, I don't suppose you can find a link to the commercial online?
A "divide" is an inevitable consequence of using government force to control people. Who's to blame, those who want to control others, or those who want to "live and let live"?Evo said:The divide I am seeing in this nation is frightening. There was a political commercial on tv tonight calling for the end of Obamacare and to elect the person that will oppose Obama's reforms.
Huh? This statement isn't logically connected to the rest of your post. What do Evangelical white supremist racists have to do with opposition to Obama's health care plan? Are those the only people who logically could oppose it?I understand that racism is still big in America. When you combine the white supremicst movement with the Evangelical movement, you've got quite a mix.
Huh? Do you mean just that the justification wasn't stated in the commercial? Why state the obvious?Evo said:There was no justification for opposing the healthcare plan other than it was tied to Obama.
LOL. Gullible is what you call someone who would believe any of that delusional nonsense. Or Democratic Party constituency.Ivan Seeking said:Completely expected given the circumstances. The Republicans did far more damage to the economy than was hoped; and the republican and independent voters cannot yet accept that fact. With the failure of free-market capitalism, supply-side economics, and the devestating consequences of maximized deregulation in the financial markets - to root causes of our problems - the Republicans literally have no credible platform left. But they are good at smoke and mirror shows, which is how they are getting by for now - a gullible public