The Infinity Experience: Can we truly comprehend infinity?

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    Infinity Paradox
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of infinity, particularly in relation to the universe and its potential infinitude. Participants explore various interpretations of infinity, its implications in mathematics and physics, and the philosophical questions it raises. The scope includes theoretical considerations, conceptual clarifications, and some mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Philosophical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that infinity is not a number and emphasize its conceptual nature.
  • There is a contention regarding whether the universe can be concluded to be infinite, with some arguing that it cannot be definitively stated.
  • Participants discuss the paradoxical nature of infinity, particularly whether something infinite can expand.
  • One participant proposes a mathematical example involving sets to argue that infinity can expand, challenging the assertion that infinite sets cannot grow.
  • Others maintain that physical infinity cannot be expanded, suggesting that adding to an infinite space does not change its nature.
  • Some participants differentiate between mathematical infinities and physical infinities, arguing that the physical universe is governed by laws that impose finite constraints.
  • The concept of cardinality and the differences between countable and uncountable infinities are mentioned as relevant to the discussion.
  • There is a suggestion that the discussion may be more suited for a philosophy forum due to its abstract nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the nature of infinity, its implications in both mathematics and physics, and whether the universe can be considered infinite. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on the key questions posed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of formal definitions and the dependence on individual interpretations of infinity. Some participants acknowledge the difficulty in formalizing their ideas about infinity and its paradoxes.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring philosophical questions about infinity, mathematical concepts related to set theory, and the implications of infinity in physical theories.

  • #151
Originally posted by drag
Greetings Zantra !

Purhaps you misunderstood me. I agree with you
in general about REAL infinity. However, when
it comes to math which is a strict and defined
system that we invented - it is capable of proving
something within it is infinite.

Here's the theorem and related links if you wan'em:
http://www.shu.edu/projects/reals/infinity/irrat_nm.html
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/IrrationalNumber.html
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Pi.html

Live long and prosper.

Ok this is turning into a PI discussion which isn't the direction I was headed, so for the sake of the argument we'll concede the irrationality of PI.

But at this point I was thinking that the current mathmatical understanding eventually won't be able to coexist with the true nature of the universe we will discover, and in fact will have to be expanded.
 
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  • #152
Originally posted by Zantra
But at this point I was thinking that the current mathmatical understanding eventually won't be able to coexist with the true nature of the universe we will discover, and in fact will have to be expanded.
That's why I'm saying it's an abstract system - it
is not connected to the Universe. :wink:
 
  • #153
Zantra:
Ok this is turning into a PI discussion which isn't the direction I was headed, so for the sake of the argument we'll concede the irrationality of PI.

How nice of you. I was under the impression that had been pretty conculusively proven. It is also easy to prove that any number that does NOT have an infinite number of (non-zero) decimal places must be a fraction with only powers of 2 and 5 in the denominator. (And even those will give infinite expansions if you happen to use base 11 rather than base 10.) That has nothing to do with whether or not there actually exist an infinite number of things in the universe.

Zantra:
But at this point I was thinking that the current mathmatical understanding eventually won't be able to coexist with the true nature of the universe we will discover, and in fact will have to be expanded.

Well, yes, that happens all the time- the main job of mathematicians is to establish new types of mathematics which physicists often find illuminate physics better. (Much to the disgust of the mathematicians, of course!)
 
  • #154
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons NO ©, Been "given freely" (surrendered, under my name) already

It comes from a childs joke; "How many sides to a Circle?"
The answer is "Two, inside and outside."
From that we define 'space', and that is by delineation.
The definition of "infinite" is 'undelineated space', or "Space with no boundries", but this brings us to a simply problem.
All of the thoughts in our heads are 'delineations of space', hence we can conclude that an 'undelineated space', a 'space without boundaries', is something that we cannot conceive of.
Ergo, no thoughts on the subject, no math, no concepts that will "fill the intellectual bill" as there cannot be, because every thought, is a "delineation" of space.
Thanks.....have nice thoughts!

Needed an EDIT, so put it here to ensure it is noticed...

It may be that we cannot concieve of an infinity, but we can, and do, experience it, all of our lives(times).

It is 'actrully', all you will ever experience and it will be, greater still then all of what you will experience of it!
 
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