The instability of Rutherford's atomic model

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the instability of Rutherford's atomic model, specifically addressing the behavior of electrons in orbit around a nucleus and the implications of electromagnetic radiation on their energy loss. The original poster seeks to calculate the time it takes for an electron to spiral into the nucleus based on energy loss due to acceleration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster discusses the power loss equation and attempts to integrate energy loss over distance but encounters issues with negative energy. They also consider circular motion equations but find them unhelpful. Other participants suggest using a differential equation for the radius and applying the Bohr formula for energy in relation to radius.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring various methods to approach the problem, with some offering guidance on using differential equations and energy relations. The original poster has revised their understanding based on new insights about the electron's distance from the nucleus and has calculated an approximate time for the electron's spiral, though they express uncertainty about the validity of their method. There is no explicit consensus on the correctness of the approaches discussed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes considerations of the assumptions regarding the electron's distance from the nucleus and the implications of energy loss calculations. The original poster's lack of experience in this area is noted, which may influence their confidence in the analysis presented.

GuitarDean
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
I understand Rutherford proposed that electrons orbit around a central nucleus. However, since accelerating charges produce electromagnetic radiation, the orbiting electron should lose energy via E&M and spiral into the nucleus.

But my question is: How do I calculate the time it takes for the electron to spiral into the nucleus, given the rate of energy loss (as a function of acceleration) and the initial electron-nucleus distance?


The power loss equation is: P = (e^2 a^2 ) / (6 pi epsilon c^3)

So far I've thought of calculating the initial energy of the system and integrating the power, and then equating the lost energy to the initial energy; however the final energy is negative inifinity, so this doesn't seem to work.

Algebraic manipulation of circular motion equations didn't get me anywhere either; I'm not really sure how else to proceed now.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You need a differential equation for the radius R.
The P you give is dE/dt.
Use the Bohr formula for E in terms of R, and use a=v^2/R.
 
I realized a mistake in my earlier analysis; when the electron enters the nucleus, r is not 0 but rather on the order or 10^-14 - this means when the electron enters the nucleus, the electric potential energy does not diverge to negtive inifity like I first thought - so I integrated P from initial r to the nucleus radius and found the total energy loss.

Then I found the average power loss by dividing the power integral by the interval I integrated over (r final - r initial); for the hydrogen atom I came up with time = 10^-9 which seems about right.

Does my analysis make sense though? I haven't had much experience with in this particular part of physics and I'm not sure if I just came up with a reasonable answer by a wrong route.
 
Your approach is probably good for an approximation, but is not correct for getting the desired value.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
13K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
4K
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K