The meaning of z number in red shift

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter kc2dws
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Red shift Shift
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the meaning of the z number in redshift, particularly in the context of cosmological redshift versus Doppler redshift. Participants explore the implications of z in relation to the expansion of the universe and the measurement of light frequencies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Kevin initially questions whether the z number represents a percentage of the speed of light or a scale used in physics to differentiate between objects.
  • Some participants clarify that z represents the relative difference between observed and emitted frequencies, particularly in the context of cosmological redshift.
  • One participant emphasizes that cosmological redshift measures the expansion of distances over time rather than relative speed at a given moment.
  • Another participant explains that a z value of 1 indicates that distances have doubled during the light's transit, while a z value of 2 indicates that distances have tripled.
  • Mathematical relationships involving z are presented, including its connection to the scale factor of the universe and the emitted and received wavelengths of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of redshift, particularly regarding the distinction between cosmological and Doppler redshift. There is no consensus on a singular interpretation of z, as multiple perspectives are presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to the changing rate of expansion of the universe and the complexities involved in measuring redshift, which may not be fully resolved within the conversation.

kc2dws
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Hello

I understand that red shift is a measurement of relative speed. What I am looking for is what the number after the z means. Is it a percent of c or, Or is it it just a scale that physics uses to note the difference between different objects.

Thanks for your time.

Kevin
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
As I understand it, it is simply as you said the relative difference between the observed and emitted frequencies.
 
The basic difference is the background temperature of the universe 'then' vs temperature now. For example, the background temperature at z=2 was nearly three times hotter than we now measure [a z+1 thingy].
 
Thank you doth for your reply's

kevin
 
kc2dws said:
Hello

I understand that red shift is a measurement of relative speed...

Kevin

Mostly not. Most of the redshift that is observed and that we talk about here is not Doppler redshift (depending on relative speed at some given instant of time.)

Mostly we talk about cosmological redshift. Technically different. It is a measure not of relative speed at some time but instead measureshow much distances have expanded while the light was in transit.

You will see that in the Wikipedia article that Drakkith gave link to, if you look far enough down the page. You will see a table and one of the entries will be "cosmological redshift".

that is the z we are talking about when we talk about the observed redshifts of distant galaxies. Or Type Ia supernovae with z = 1 or z = 1.5
Or quasars with z = 6. Or cosmic microwave with z = 1100. That is all cosmological redshift.

The formula does not involve speed. It involves the ratio of distance now/distance then.

z = 1 means that on average a largescale distance DOUBLED while the light was in transit.

You always add one to z to get the ratio by which distances have increased.

1+z = anow/athen you can find that in the Wikipedia Drakkith gave you

In other words if z = 2 then distances have TRIPLED while the light was in transit to us.
they are 3 times longer NOW on the day we receive the light than they were THEN when the light was emitted by the glowing gas or star and started on its way to us.

the general pattern of expansion is not like ordinary motion because nobody gets anywhere by it (everybody gets farther from everybody)
and the rate of expansion has been constantly changing all during the time the light has been traveling, so there is no one obvious rate to pick that would determine z.
 
Thank you marcus.

I reread the article, And found the equation
 
z is related to the scale factor of the universe by
marcus said:
1+z = anow/athen

and also to the emitted and received wavelengths (and frequencies) of light (for galaxies moving with the Hubble flow).
Irishwake said:
As I understand it, it is simply as you said the relative difference between the observed and emitted frequencies.
z =\frac{a_{now}}{a_{then}} - 1 = \frac{a_{now} - a_{then}}{a_{then}} = \frac{\lambda_{now} - \lambda_{then}}{\lambda_{then}} = \frac{f_{then} - f_{now}}{f_{now}}.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K