The Pantheon of Derivatives - Lie Derivatives And Others (IV)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Lie derivatives and Lie algebras, exploring their definitions, properties, and applications in the context of differential geometry and physics. Participants engage in technical explanations and clarifications regarding the mathematical formulations and implications of these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the Lie derivative as the differentiation of a tensor field along a vector field, highlighting its applications and connection to Lie algebras and symmetry groups in physics.
  • Another participant questions the relationship between the Lie algebra and the corresponding Lie group, providing a standard definition involving vector fields and left shifts.
  • A subsequent reply clarifies the intention behind defining the Lie algebra without unnecessary reference to the group, indicating a focus on the algebraic structure itself.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of a formula related to the operator ##\nabla_X##, with a participant asserting that it does not follow from previous definitions and suggesting an axiom for its definition on covector fields.
  • There is a discussion about the notation used in a formula, with one participant suggesting that a symbol represents a tensor product, while another clarifies it refers to a cross product.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the cross product of vector fields, indicating a moment of realization regarding the notation used.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of the Lie algebra and its relation to the Lie group, as well as the validity of specific mathematical formulations. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing interpretations present.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made in the definitions and the dependence on specific mathematical contexts. Some formulas and notations are subject to interpretation, and the discussion does not resolve these ambiguities.

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Lie Derivatives​

A Lie derivative is in general the differentiation of a tensor field along a vector field. This allows several applications since a tensor field includes a variety of instances, e.g. vectors, functions, or differential forms. In the case of vector fields, we additionally get a Lie algebra structure. This is, although formulated in a modern language, the actual reason why Lie algebras have been considered in the first place: as the tangent bundle of Lie groups which are themselves the invariants that appear as symmetry groups in the standard model of particle physics or more generally in the famous theorem of Emmy Noether, which is actually a theorem about invariants of differential equations (see [9],[10]). The Jacobi identity, e.g., which together with anti-commutativity defines a Lie algebra is simply a manifestation of the Leibniz rule of differentiation.

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The definition of the Lie algebra ##g## of a Lie group ##G## is strange (near formula (18)). It looks like the operaton ##[\cdot,\cdot]## defined in ##g## does not have any relation to the group ##G##.

Actually one of the standard definitions is as follows. Consider two vectors ##a,b\in g##. And let ##L_a:G\to G## be the left shift. Then one can construct vector fields $$A(x)=(dL_x)a,\quad B(x)= (dL_x)b$$ Let ##C(x)## be the commutator of the vector fields ##A(x),B(x)##. Then by definition ##[a,b]=C(e)##, here ##e## is the identical element.

It would be good to note that equations (40),(41) determine ##\nabla_X## uniquely
 
Last edited:
That's right and I removed "on G" as the intention was to define a Lie algebra without a (unnecessary) reference to a group, which already happened prior to the formal definition.
 
Formula (42) does not follow from the sentence above. The operator ##\nabla_X## has been previously defined on the vector fields. Thus the left side of this formula is indefinite. Actually this formula is a definition of the operator ##\nabla_X## on tensors of type (2,0). The fact that the manifold is Riemann as well as the dimension of the manifold have not relation to this formula. One can put it by definition for any connection on any manifold.
Accept the following axiom: $$\nabla _X\langle f,u\rangle=\langle \nabla _X f,u\rangle+\langle f, \nabla _X u\rangle,$$
for any vector fields ## u,X## and for any covector field ##f##. This axiom
defines the operator ##\nabla _X## for covector fields and then formula similar to (42) extends the operator ##\nabla _X## to tensor fields of any type ##(p,q)##.

ps In (42) the symbol ##\times## is tensor product I guess. ##\otimes## is commonly used
 
Last edited:
zwierz said:
ps In (42) the symbol ××\times is tensor product I guess. ⊗⊗\otimes is commonly used
Nope, it's said and meant to be the cross-product.
 
then what is cross product of vector fields?

upd: o, I see! ok
 

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