The perihelion precession of Jupiter

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Bjarne
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Jupiter Precession
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the perihelion precession of Jupiter, comparing it to other celestial bodies such as Earth, Venus, Mars, and the Moon. Participants explore the timeframes associated with these precessions and the complexities involved in their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the perihelion precession of Jupiter takes about 200,000 years.
  • Another participant calculates the perihelion precession of Jupiter to be approximately 180,000 years based on NASA's orbital elements data.
  • There is a correction regarding the perihelion precession of Earth, with one participant initially stating it takes about 100,000 years but later questioning this figure, suggesting it might be closer to 23,000 years.
  • Another participant clarifies that the correct figure for Earth's perihelion precession is about 112,000 years, noting that 23,000 years pertains to the precession of the equinoxes.
  • Questions are raised about the perihelion precession of Venus and Mars, as well as the perigee precession of satellites, with one participant suggesting the Moon's perigee precession is about 1 year.
  • A participant provides a link to a resource that lists precession rates for all planets and mentions that the Moon's perigee precession is slightly less than 9 years.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of orbit precession, referencing a study by J. Laskar and providing a detailed list of eccentricity and inclination cycle periods for various celestial bodies, including Jupiter.
  • It is noted that Jupiter's perihelion precesses forward with a period of about 305,000 years, with additional oscillations involved.
  • A participant inquires about the perihelion precession of Mercury, expressing confusion about the calculations based on the provided link.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the timeframes for perihelion precession, particularly for Earth and Jupiter, with no consensus reached on the exact durations. The discussion includes multiple competing views and calculations.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific definitions and data sources, and there are unresolved mathematical steps regarding the calculations of precession periods.

Bjarne
Messages
344
Reaction score
0
One complete orbit of perihelion precession of Earth takes about 100,000 years
How long time take one complete orbit of the perihelion precession Jupiter ?
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
~200,000 yrs
 
NASA's table of orbital elements at http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/txt/p_elem_t1.txt gives for Jupiter

longitude of perihelion: 14.72847983 degrees
rate of change: 0.21252668 degrees/century

so that would work out to (5 x 360 x 100) about 180,000 years.
 
I wrote above that; One complete orbit of perihelion precession of Earth takes about 100,000 years , - but I think this is wrong, - it is only about 23,000 years, right ?
 
Bjarne said:
I wrote above that; One complete orbit of perihelion precession of Earth takes about 100,000 years , - but I think this is wrong, - it is only about 23,000 years, right ?

No, you were right the first time (112,000 yrs to be more exact.) 23,000 yrs is closer to the precession of the equinoxes, which is due to the Earth wobbling on its axis.
 
Thank's you
 
What about perihelion precession of Venus and Mars ?
And perigee precession of satelites ?
( I believe the perigee precession of the Moon is about 1 year ?)
 
Bjarne said:
What about perihelion precession of Venus and Mars ?
And perigee precession of satelites ?
( I believe the perigee precession of the Moon is about 1 year ?)

Here: this wll give you the precession rates for all the planet's:

http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/txt/aprx_pos_planets.pdf

The perigee precession ofthe Moon is slightly less than 9 yrs.
 
Are you talking about orbit precession? In that case, it's some complicated loop the loops:

J. Laskar
"Secular evolution of the Solar System over 10 million years"
Astronomy and Astrophysics, 198, 341-362 (1988).
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1988A&A...198..341L

I've made videos for YouTube of that precession:
http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=D0825FC30A2F00A6
http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=86F2CCA7F3F677ED

Eccentricity cycle periods (years)
E1 232721
E2 173831
E3 74582
E4 72315
E5 305020
E6 45901
E7 422219
E8 1943320

Inclination cycle periods (years)
II -231251
I2 -183752
I3 -68754
I4 -72967
I5 oo -- the invariable plane (conservation of angular momentum)
I6 -49221
I7 -434113
I8 -1873645

Negative means backward precession, like spin-axis precession

The biggest terms for Jupiter's eccentricity:
0.0441 E5
0.0157 E6
0.0018 E7

So Jupiter's perihelion precesses forward with a period of about 305,000 years, with a back-and-forth wobble with a period of 54,000 years. Its eccentricity also oscillates with that wobble period.

Not surprisingly, Saturn is the main perturber of Jupiter's motion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #10
What about perihelion precession of Mercury? How many years does that take?
(I don't understand how to calculate this according to the link above)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
12K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K