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The right of way in a certain situation

  1. Jun 20, 2016 #1
    I am curious about how it should be determined who has the right of way in a certain type of situation. Let's imagine a hypothetical situation in which you are in a car trying to make a left turn out of a store onto a two way street. Across the street and just to the your left, there is a car that is also seeking to make a left turn. There is not a stop sign where you are at or where the other car is at. At first both you and the driver of the other car are stopped there waiting for traffic to clear so you two can make your left turns. Then finally the traffic does clear. If you and the other motorist both make your left turns at the same time, your car will crash into the other car. Who has the right of way? Is the right of way determined by who arrived next to the street and started waiting to make their left turn first? If not, how is it determined who has the right of way?
     
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  3. Jun 20, 2016 #2

    russ_watters

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    Two cars opposite each other making left turns at the same time should not crash unless they are swinging the turn too wide (pulling too far forward before turning).
    Scroll about a third of the way down for a diagram showing the proper path to take and note that the paths of the two cars do not intersect: http://www.louisianadriver.com/topics/index2.php?ch=13
     
  4. Jun 20, 2016 #3
    russ, I said that the other car is to the left of your car, not directly opposite each other. In my hypothetical, if both cars turned left at the same time without swinging too wide, a collision is most definitely possible!
     
  5. Jun 20, 2016 #4

    Simon Bridge

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    Car A is across the road and to the left of car B.
    Both want to turn left - in countries where they drive on the right, the trajectories will intersect.
    however... since this is a 2-way street, there is no reason for them to crash. Both cars can pull out into their lanes before a collision can happen.
    You may have an issue if the opposite car is only a little to the left ... say 1/2 to 3/4 a car width. Then one or both drivers will have to make an evasive manoever.

    In countries where they drive on the left, a similar situation happens for right turns.
     
  6. Jun 20, 2016 #5
    "The trajectories will intersect"-exactly. That's why I created this thread. Someone should have the right of way here. Someone should also NOT have the right of way.


    Someone should have the right of way. A lot of streets are too narrow for someone to make an evasive maneuver. Also, what if one of the vehicles were 73 feet long tractor-trailers? Do you see my point? Someone has to have the right of way.
     
  7. Jun 20, 2016 #6

    Simon Bridge

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    Have you tried consulting a road-law expert in your (unspecified) jurisdiction?
    I don't think we have a rule for that here... I get this every day near where I live (involving conflicting driveways) and it is negotiated on the spot between drivers. People who live here just turn left when they pull out (we drive on the left - so, in your case, turn right).
    Looking at the variety within a few kms of my house, it is probably not possible for there to be an exact law for every possible configuration of vehicle access-ways.
     
  8. Jun 20, 2016 #7
    Russ, I looked at your link and it doesn't say anything that refutes my assertion that it is possible for the trajectories to intersect in my hypothetical situation.
     
  9. Jun 20, 2016 #8

    jtbell

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    I don't know what the legal requirement is, which may depend on your local jurisdiction. However, I would say that the moral principle is that whichever driver arrives first, should be the one to turn first, assuming of course that they simultaneously become able to turn because of clearing cross traffic.
     
  10. Jun 20, 2016 #9
    Who would be a road law expert? I live in America. Should I ask the local police?


    I am not sure (that's part of the reason I made this thread), but I think that it is negotiated on the spot between drivers here in America too. To me, that seems like a recipe for disaster.


    I thought maybe the rule would be like the rule at 4 way stop signs: Whoever got to the point where they are waiting to turn first has the right of way.
     
  11. Jun 20, 2016 #10

    russ_watters

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    Doesn't look like that to me. Two cars both turning left from opposite directions will be to the left of each other: your left lane is their right lane. See the diagram:

    intersec.gif

    It looks to me like that diagram is of the situation you describe. If not, please post a diagram showing what you are referring to. This was not difficult to find.
     
  12. Jun 20, 2016 #11
    There is not one diagram on your link that is analogous to the hypothetical situation I gave here. Do you think that the G1 Two-way left turn lane diagram is analogous to my hypothetical? If so, you're incorrect. In my hypothetical, you are making a left turn which is like the car with the aqua colored line in the G1 Two-way left turn diagram. However, the other car is NOT making a left turn from the turn lane. Look at the G1 diagram. in my hypothetical, the other car would be stopped in the area where the car with the red line is GOING to, attempting to pull forward making a left turn in the street.
     
  13. Jun 20, 2016 #12

    Fervent Freyja

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    Russ is correct. The wording in the OP isn't exacting enough to describe this situation properly (causes a perspective shift).
     
  14. Jun 20, 2016 #13

    russ_watters

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    Throwing a bone to the OP:
    "Out of a store", there can be a wide variation in alignment. A car "just to your left" should not be a problem - you can turn sharp enough to avoid them, like at an intersection. But, a car further to your left might be a problem. Far enough to the left and their paths will cross. So yes, a negotiation may be required.
     
  15. Jun 20, 2016 #14
    Russ, your diagram is NOT the hypothetical situation that I describe. In your diagram, all vehicles involved are on the public street. In my hypothetical situation, neither your vehicle nor the other car is on a public street. In my hypothetical situation, your vehicle and the other car seeking to turn left are stopped on driveways for commercial businesses, waiting to turn onto the public street. In my hypothetical, your car and the other car are seeking to turn onto the public street, but they are not on the public street.
     
  16. Jun 20, 2016 #15
    Russ is incorrect. He provided a diagram that is TOTALLY DIFFERENT from the situation I described.
     
  17. Jun 20, 2016 #16
    I just made a diagram of my situation on a dry erase board . I'm not much of an artist lol, but you should still be able to get the point from my diagram. CLick on the picture of the thumbnail to expand it. You really need to expand it. If you don't, you might misinterpret me again.

    20160620_202612[1].jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Jun 20, 2016 #17
    I'm talking about a situation in which their paths will cross.

    "A negotiation may be required." _----Well, who has the right of way? Does anyone have the right of way?
     
  19. Jun 20, 2016 #18

    Evo

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    This is one of those situations where common sense comes into play. You see the car across the street. Do they have their blinker on indicating which way they are going to turn? You seem to know they are turning left, so they must have their left blinker on, because if they have their right blinker on, you wouldn't move. Normally the person that was there first would go first, but you cannot make that assumption. you must watch the other car and start to pull out slowly, prepared to stop if they start to pull out. If you two crash, you both are at fault IMO. At least one of you should have exercised some caution.
     
  20. Jun 20, 2016 #19
    Evo, I think (but don't know) that the police and the law would also say that both drivers are at fault. I don't like the idea of neither driver having the right of way. I think that whoever gets to the street and starts waiting to turn left first should have the right of way.
     
  21. Jun 20, 2016 #20

    Evo

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    How are you going to prove that? In the end, it's up to YOU to exercise good judgement and watch other cars. YOU are the difference between a wreck and no wreck. You can't just tell yourself, I got here first so I am going to plow into this street irregardless of oncoming cars. YOU need to be watchful of other cars.
     
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