The right of way in a certain situation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the right of way in a hypothetical driving scenario involving two cars making left turns from opposite sides of a two-way street. Participants explore the implications of traffic laws, driver behavior, and the geometry of the turns involved.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how right of way is determined when two cars are making left turns simultaneously without stop signs, suggesting that it might depend on who arrived first.
  • Others argue that if both cars are turning left from opposite directions, their trajectories may intersect, leading to potential collisions.
  • A few participants propose that the geometry of the turns can allow both cars to proceed without crashing, depending on their positioning and turning radius.
  • Some express uncertainty about the existence of specific traffic laws governing such situations, suggesting that local customs may dictate driver behavior instead.
  • There is a suggestion that the moral principle of first arrival could apply, but this is not universally accepted.
  • Participants discuss the variability of road configurations and how this complicates establishing a clear rule for right of way.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on who has the right of way in the described scenario. Multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretation of traffic laws, driver behavior, and the potential for collisions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the hypothetical situation lacks precise definitions and may depend on local traffic laws, which are not universally applicable. The discussion highlights the complexity of real-world driving scenarios that may not fit neatly into established rules.

  • #31
I remember having this conversation before with other people and was shocked to find that how you do it depends on your culture. I drew the situation in on my whiteboard.

In the USA, it's customary to pass in front of each other (the purple line,) in France, it's customary to pass each other first, then turn (red.)
 

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  • #32
1oldman2 said:
In an ambiguous situation such as this I defer to the following rule regardless of local law, "The vehicle with the greater mass/velocity always has the right of way"
In the Navy, we call that "The Law of Gross Tonnage".
 
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  • #33
newjerseyrunner said:
In the USA, it's customary to pass in front of each other (the purple line,) in France, it's customary to pass each other first, then turn (red.)
The purple is my preference (I'm from the USA...). The reason it makes more sense to me is that if you are both following the purple path, then your timing doesn't matter. If you are following the red path, then your course and timing both matter. It is a more complicated scenario to deal with and therefore I would think more likely to result in an accident.
 
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  • #34
I wonder if we can somehow invoke sailboat rules.
  • The car on the starboard tack (the wind direction is from the "right" side of the car) has the right-of-way.
  • If both cars are on the same tack, the car to leeward (downwind) has the right-of-way.
 
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  • #35
collinsmark said:
I wonder if we can somehow invoke sailboat rules.
Anything but the "Damn the torpedoes" approach, that's getting to common on the road these days.:nb)
 
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  • #36
bluemoonKY said:
I just made a diagram of my situation on a dry erase board . I'm not much of an artist lol, but you should still be able to get the point from my diagram. CLick on the picture of the thumbnail to expand it. You really need to expand it. If you don't, you might misinterpret me again.

View attachment 102266
:smile: I find the idea to install a traffic light for people to cross the streets usually not at the critical crossroads or whereabouts is a good solution that can be applied in this case (that is, you just press the button and wait for 5 seconds after the red light is on and the cars from both directions will stop, you then can walk from BurgerKing to McDonald or vice versa).
Other than this you may have to follow the rule, no crossing is allowed, and drive on your right side until you can make a U turn.
 
  • #37
It seems that where I'm from this awkward situation is avoided by not designing exits this poorly.
 

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