The set of allowed trajectories in spacetime

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of light cones in the context of special relativity, particularly focusing on the implications for the simultaneity of events and the nature of allowed trajectories in spacetime. Participants explore the definitions and interpretations of these concepts as presented in various texts, including "Spacetime and Geometry" by Caroll and "General Relativity" by Geroch.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the concept of light cones and their implications for the understanding of simultaneity in special relativity.
  • Another participant suggests that the relativity of simultaneity is a key concept to consider and points to resources that explain it further.
  • A different participant clarifies that they understand simultaneity but find the notion of light cones to be unclear, indicating a need for further explanation.
  • One participant provides a detailed explanation of light cones, describing how they divide spacetime into regions and the implications for causality and influence between events.
  • Another participant references diagrams from Geroch's "General Relativity" to illustrate the discussion on measurements in spacetime and light cones.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the clarity of the concept of light cones, with some expressing understanding while others seek further clarification. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the participants' varying levels of comprehension of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference specific texts and diagrams to support their points, indicating that the discussion is grounded in established literature, yet interpretations and understandings of these concepts vary among participants.

Demon117
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I was reading Spacetime and Geometry by Caroll and I came across this notion:

In special relativity there is no absolute notion of "all of space at one
moment in time." Instead, there is a rule that particles always travel at less than or equal to the
speed of light. We can therefore define light cones at every event, which locally describe
the set of allowed trajectories. For two events that are outside each others' light cones,
there is no universal notion of which event occurred earlier in time.

I have never understood this and I was wondering if someone could enlighten me.
 
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matumich26 said:
I was reading Spacetime and Geometry by Caroll and I came across this notion:

In special relativity there is no absolute notion of "all of space at one
moment in time." Instead, there is a rule that particles always travel at less than or equal to the
speed of light. We can therefore define light cones at every event, which locally describe
the set of allowed trajectories. For two events that are outside each others' light cones,
there is no universal notion of which event occurred earlier in time.

I have never understood this and I was wondering if someone could enlighten me.

Simultaneity of events?
 
I am afraid that statement is as clear to me as anything I could write.
What don't you understand?
 
matumich26 said:
Simultaneity of events?
Are you familiar with the notion of the relativity of simultaneity? See here and here for some more info, and you might also want to take a look at some of the basic SR tutorials on this thread which all cover the relativity of simultaneity. They also cover the notion of "light cones", but for a particularly good discussion of that notion see this page.
 
I understand the simultaneity of events just fine. I apologize I should have clarified. The notion of light cones is a little fuzzy to me. Simultaneity is clear.
 
I still like your original quote, but this, from a textbook, may help you:

"The light cone divides space-time into three separate regions. The inside of the light cone, in the positive time direction is the future. If you start at the apex of the light cone, you can only reach or affect points inside your future light cone. The only people who can see you (using light) must be on the surface of your future light cone. The inside of the light cone in the negative time direction is the past. Points inside your past light cone are inaccessible to you (without time travel), but are the only points that can affect you here and now. There is no orthochronous Lorentz transformation that connects points in the past and future light cones, so time travel is not possible in special relativity. The rest of space-time, outside the light cone is always a spacelike separation from the apex of the cone, and can be called 'elsewhere'. There is no way that you can influence or be influenced by points outside your light cone. But those points are still very important. They are the only space-time points where other people can be at the same time as you. At this very moment, everybody you know is outside your light cone. Only solipsists have nobody outside their light cones. Although there are people outside your light cone right now, you can only see them when they are on your past light cone. (Think a bit about that.) For intervals outside the light cone, there is no meaning to absolute future or past, because even an orthochronous Lorentz transformation can interchange past and future. This is not time travel however, because these points are inaccessible to you and can't affect you."
 

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