The theory of relativity by Christian Møller

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the evaluation of Christian Møller's text on the theory of relativity, particularly its suitability as a primary resource for learning the subject. Participants explore various aspects of the book, including its treatment of spacetime, mathematical conventions, and coverage of topics like black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express that Møller's exposition is well-written and organized, but others argue it is outdated and lacks emphasis on modern geometrical thinking.
  • One participant notes that Møller does not cover black holes, suggesting that additional resources are necessary for a complete understanding of relativity.
  • There is a discussion about the relevance of the ict convention and Minkowski diagrams, with some arguing that they are confusing compared to algebraic methods.
  • A participant references a quote from J.L. Synge, emphasizing the importance of understanding space-time diagrams in studying relativity.
  • Another participant shares their decision to move away from Møller's text in favor of more modern resources like Visser's lecture notes and Wald's text.
  • There is curiosity about Einstein's evolving appreciation for geometric interpretations in relativity, with references to historical context provided by other participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not agree on the suitability of Møller's text as a main resource. While some appreciate its thoroughness, others find it outdated and lacking in essential modern concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in Møller's coverage, particularly regarding black holes and the emphasis on certain mathematical conventions. The discussion reflects a range of opinions on the effectiveness of different pedagogical approaches in teaching relativity.

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I stumbled upon this text recently and I was just interested in how you'd rate it, in case you're familiar with it.
To me the exposition seems alright, but the text is old and sometimes it shows.
Would you consider learning relativity from this book as a main source or would you go for a more modern exposition? and why?
 
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While there are some topics of interest not covered or emphasized in more modern texts,
I would not recommend it as a main source (with the selection available today) because it doesn't emphasize geometrical thinking in terms of spacetime and spacetime diagrams. In the preface, Moller declares his preference for 3-d vector calculus in the beginning, followed later by 4-d tensor calculus [with ict] --with emphasis on algebra and calculus, which is good for doing some types of calculations.

My $0.03.
 
Moller is very well-written and very well-organized. As Robphy says, he covers several topics more thoroughly than most modern texts, and often devotes more attention to a 3+1 split.

What he does not cover at all is black holes, so for this reason alone you'll need another book to consult.
 
ict convention is a no-go nowadays, while I don't know, why one should empasize Minkowski diagrams. Usually I find them more confusing than the algebra/calcculus in covariant form.
 
vanhees71 said:
ict convention is a no-go nowadays
Except when doing a Wick rotation, then it's acceptable. :wink:
 
vanhees71 said:
...why one should empasize Minkowski diagrams. Usually I find them more confusing than the algebra/calcculus in covariant form.

It was Minkowski's reformulation of Einstein's papers that led to the "covariant" way of thinking.
Minkowski formulated "space-time" geometry, "proper-time", "light-cone", "world-line", and 4-vectors [developed further by Sommerfeld].
(Einstein didn't appreciate all of this at the time. Sommerfeld quotes Einstein "Since the mathematicians have invaded the theory of relativity, I do not understand it myself any more".)


Did you learn [or would you teach] introductory Euclidean geometry with algebra and calculus, but no diagrams?
Are diagrams of Euclidean geometry confusing?
(Is it helpful to draw the intersection of two figures? Or just write a system of equations?)


In PHY 101, we often draw "position vs time" diagrams (a.k.a. space-time diagrams... although one often does not recognize or explicitly use its underlying non-euclidean metric) to supplement the typical algebraic and calculus-based kinematic equations. This is especially helpful for piecewise motions that are not easy to write down algebraically.
(Later, we also draw Free-Body diagrams and do vector-addition graphically.. to support an algebraic computation.)


Finally, I like this quote from
J.L. Synge in Relativity: The Special Theory (1956), p. 63 ,
"Anyone who studies relativity without understanding
how to use simple space-time diagrams
is as much inhibited as a student of
functions of a complex variable who
does not understand the Argand diagram."
 
Thanks for all the answers, as i kept reading the book and i saw the way it deals with the structure of spacetime i realized i truly don't like it.
I'll stick to Visser's lecture notes and to Wald's text for now.
 
robphy said:
(Einstein didn't appreciate all of this at the time. Sommerfeld quotes Einstein "Since the mathematicians have invaded the theory of relativity, I do not understand it myself any more".)

I find this very interesting, given that the geometric interpretation of the properties of spacetime are at the very core of GR's foundations. I didnt know this was Einstein's opinion at first.
Do you know how he came to appreciate this later on?
 
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The book proves that the Einstein synchronization convention is actually a synchronization convention. This immediately makes it better than most SR books out there :)

But apart from that, I wouldn't use it as a main resource for learning relativity. It is far too outdated. There are more comprehensive and more modern texts out there you can use to greater fruition.
 

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