Tidal Acceleration and planetary rotation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around tidal acceleration and its implications for planetary rotation, specifically focusing on how a stationary Earth would respond to the tidal forces exerted by the Moon. Participants explore the calculations involved in determining the effects of tidal acceleration on Earth's rotation speed and period, as well as the conditions necessary for Earth to become tide-locked to the Moon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about applying tidal acceleration to understand its impact on Earth's rotation and seeks to calculate the time it would take for Earth to become tide-locked to the Moon.
  • Another participant requests clarification on the derivation of the tidal acceleration value mentioned.
  • A formula for tidal acceleration is provided, detailing the variables involved, including the gravitational constant, the mass of the Moon, and the distance between the Earth and the Moon.
  • Concerns are raised about the impossibility of calculating the time to tide-lock without knowing the rate of energy dissipation due to Earth's deformation, which is influenced by various geological factors.
  • Further discussion reveals uncertainty about estimating the energy dissipation rate and its dependence on whether Earth is rotating or not.
  • One participant references literature suggesting that Earth would eventually become tide-locked to the Moon, but acknowledges that this would occur on a timescale beyond the current lifespan of the Sun.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that additional information is necessary to make accurate calculations regarding tidal locking, particularly concerning energy dissipation. There is no consensus on how to estimate this rate or its implications for a non-rotating Earth.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexities involved in modeling tidal interactions and the assumptions required for calculations, particularly regarding Earth's geological structure and energy dissipation mechanisms.

AotrsCommander
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I'm struggling to get my head around tidal acceleration. I get what is IS, I know how to calculate it, but what I'm not sure is how to apply it in a way that's meaningful to me.

So. If we took a stationary Earth (i.e. non rotating, tide-locked) and have the moon magically appear in orbit and applying the moon's ≈1.1e-06N tidal acceleraton, how would I work out what effect that has on the rotation speed (and thus period) of the Earth?

For, example, how would I calculate how long it would take for the Earth to become tide-locked to the moon (because that'd be the stable end-point, yes?) Or how long a day would be some time period (say, 4 billion years) after the moon appeared?
 
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Can you show how you derived that number for tidal acceleration?
 
##a=GM\frac{d}{R^3}##

where a = tidal acceleration, G is the gravitational constant (6.67384e-11), d is the diameter of the distorted body (in this case Earth, 2*6371000m), M is the mass of the distorting body (in this case the moon, 7.347E+22kg) and R is the distance between the two bodies (384399000m).

(It is only a first-order equation, as I understand, but sufficent to my purposes.)

I calculated the numbers via spreadsheet, which gave me 1.09996E-06N

I also found http://staff.washington.edu/aganse/europa/tides/tides.html, which gave consistent results (and in fact made me realize my spreadsheet have missed G being to the E-11...!)

(I could use the more complex equation on the linked page for greater accuracy - and may do later, but for the moment, first-order is enough for me to get a handle on the numbers.)
 
AotrsCommander said:
For, example, how would I calculate how long it would take for the Earth to become tide-locked to the moon (because that'd be the stable end-point, yes?)

That's impossible without additional information. You need the rate of energy dissipation due to the cyclic deformation of Earth. That mainly depends on offshore water and the geological structure of Earth. A rigid, perfectly elastic or superfluid Earth would never be tidal locked.
 
DrStupid said:
That's impossible without additional information. You need the rate of energy dissipation due to the cyclic deformation of Earth. That mainly depends on offshore water and the geological structure of Earth. A rigid, perfectly elastic or superfluid Earth would never be tidal locked.

Ah. Right.

I'm guessing there's no easy way to make an estimate of that without some significant mathamatical (or computer) modelling, is there?

I'd ask if we know what the rate is for Earth, but I assume it would be different for a non-rotating Earth, yes? (During my reading around astrophysics these last few weeks, I saw something on tidal locking that said Earth would eventually become tide-locked to the moon, albeit on a timescale past the end of the life of the sun, which I why I thought it might be possible to estimate.)
 

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