Time independent operators and Heisenberg eq - paradox?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of time-independent operators in the context of the Heisenberg equation of motion and the associated paradoxes that arise. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of operators, their time dependence, and the resulting implications for the Hamiltonian in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a time-dependent operator and derives its form using the Heisenberg equation, leading to a contradiction regarding the constancy of the operator.
  • Another participant corrects the Heisenberg equation, suggesting that it should include a term for explicit time dependence, which alters the interpretation of the operator's behavior.
  • A participant acknowledges the correction and expresses understanding of the issue raised.
  • Some participants propose that the confusion may stem from a misunderstanding of calculus, particularly regarding the evaluation of derivatives at specific points in time.
  • Further discussion highlights that the cancellation of time-dependent factors in the Hamiltonian leads to non-zero commutation relations for constant operators, raising additional questions about the implications of this result.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of the paradox or the implications of the corrections made to the Heisenberg equation. Multiple viewpoints and interpretations of the mathematical framework remain present.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made about operator time dependence and the implications of the Hamiltonian's structure on the commutation relations.

pellman
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Suppose we have time-dependent operator a(t) with the equal-time commutator

[a(t),a^{\dag}(t)]=1

and in particular

[a(0),a^{\dag}(0)]=1

with Hamiltonian

H=\hbar \omega(a^\dag a+1/2)

The Heisenberg equation of motion

\frac{da}{dt}=\frac{i}{\hbar}[H,a]=-i\omega a

implies that a(t)=a_0e^{-i\omega t} where a_0 is a constant operator. Thus a^\dag a=e^{+i\omega t}a^\dag_0 a_0 e^{-i\omega t}=a^\dag_0 a_0 and so

H(t)=\hbar \omega(a^\dag_0 a_0+1/2)

for all times. Since a_0=a(0),

[a_0,a^{\dag}_0]=1

means that

\frac{i}{\hbar}[H(t),a_0]=-i\omega a_0

for all times. But this it so say that

\frac{da_0}{dt}=-i\omega a_0\neq 0

contradicting that a_0 is a constant. Where did I go wrong?
 
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First, your Heisenberg equation is not quite correct. It should be

<br /> \frac{dA}{dt}=\frac{i}{\hbar}[H,A]+ \frac{\partial A}{\partial t}<br />

where the last term accounts for any explicit time dependence in the definition of the operator A=A(q,p,t), where q and p are the canonical coordinates and momenta.

Then, we have a=(m\omega/2\hbar)^{1/2}(q+ip/m\omega). This has no explicit time dependence, so {\partial a}/{\partial t}=0.

But now a_0=e^{+i\omega t}a. And this does have explicit time dependence. So if you plug it into the corrected Heisenberg equation, you will find da_0/dt=0.
 
I think I see that. Thanks.
 
Isn't it just a trivial mistake in elementary calculus? I mean
\frac{df(0)}{dt}=0
but
\frac{df(t)}{dt}|_{t=0} \neq 0
 
Demystifier said:
Isn't it just a trivial mistake in elementary calculus? I mean
\frac{df(0)}{dt}=0
but
\frac{df(t)}{dt}|_{t=0} \neq 0

Thanks, Demystifier. Always good to run into you here.

Well, yes, that is just what I thought. But the way the time dependent factors cancel in the Hamiltonian, and since the time-dependent factors are c-numbers so the commutator is all in the constant operators a_0, it as actually the constant operators which have the non-zero commutator with the Hamiltonian, not just that it is true at t=0. Hence my question.
 

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