Time travel thought experiment game

[progyan]

Would surely be a good thing if I'd end up in some deserted area,since I'd be naked.

 

[progyan]

Well...on second thought,I could end up in some rich man's house while the latter's outside.

 

[Medicol]

...
Tut's tomb? Noah's Ark? Jimmy Hoffa? Britney's virginity?

Thanks Dave, I can only imagine the first 2 . Tut's tomb is always my favorite, now and later. It seems like my mood is with the 3rd at the moment ? while the 4th is completely unknown to me. I like Noah; his story is good but kind of limited and boring in the long term. :D

 

[progyan]

I'd rather stick to my own bathroom instead of using someone else's.

 

[BruceW]

A few people have mentioned these things already, but I think the best ways would be to make something that uses electricity (if you play with radios etc this would be easier but still take a long time). Or if you knew a lot of 19th century history, you could make predictions. I would have trouble with both of these things, so probably wouldn't be able to convince anyone that I was from the future. I would have a weird way of speaking, and would talk about weird stuff no-one has heard of. But maybe this is not enough to convince anyone...

 

[mainliner]

My SO showed me this on reddit and we had fun with it. If you were sent back to the early 19th century naked and alone how would you convince someone that you were from the future and not crazy? No tricks allowed (meaning you can't pull a raygun from your colon). Let's hear it.

show people your " i love 1989" tatto

 

[DaveC426913]

I think a qualifier should be put on this thought experiment:

What could you do to convince someone?

There's a lot of talk about building electrical devices. Obviously, if a electric motor repairman were the one sent back, he could do that. Then again, if a nuclear physicist were sent back, the answer would be different.

But my ability to do so is pretty rudimentary. Building an electric motor or a reactor is beyond my ability.

 

[Medicol]

show people your " i love 1989" tatto

If you couldn't pull the raygun out of your colon, then just leave it there. Physicists know well how to define diversity! :D

 

[Laurie Elise]

There's also the language problem. One can go back in time to some place where people speak your language, but they won't know a lot of vocabulary that you'd know, and they'd use a lot of vocabulary that has now been forgotten. But in the early 19th century, the language's phonology, grammar, and basic vocabulary would not be very different. One would have a noticeable accent, but one could easily make oneself understood.

It gets worse the farther back in time, and if one goes back far enough, it's effectively a foreign language. History of the English language - Wikipedia has some nice examples.

Not only is there a language problem, and there would be indeed, since words even though they may be pronounced the same, have taken on different meanings. Body language was also, to perhaps small, but important degree, different I would wonder how to explain the tattoos. Or the "zippers" of surgical incisions. I suppose body piercing doesn't count if you're completely naked.

 

[Tobias Funke]

If a naked man came up to me today and built a DC electric motor from scratch I'd assume he was from the future and become his devoted follower.

 

[mfb]

I would assume he came from the past... :D.

 

[Tobias Funke]

It's also possible that if you showed them future technology, they would suspect that you were actually from the past and stole it from a real time traveler from the future that you robbed. They will if they watch Star Trek, that is. And then they'd be from the future too and you could be BFFs!

 

[lpetrich]

Seems like many of us are proposing demonstration of superior knowledge, myself included. Ideally, this knowledge has to be something unknown to the people one's living among, yet accessible with their technology. It may be difficult to do it with something observational, since the people may have observed it already. But one may have more success with conceptual breakthroughs. The progress of science has not been purely empirical; it has often depended on conceptual breakthroughs. Examples:

The difference between a chemical compound and a mixture may be self-evident to most of us, but it was unknown before about 1799. It was about then that Joseph Proust started some experiments on metal rusting, and he showed that metals combine with oxygen in definite proportions -- a certain mass of oxygen for each unit mass of each metallic element. Expressed in the language of that time, the Law of definite proportions states that some mixtures have definite proportions while others do not. That was controversial back then, with some chemists rejecting it, but it eventually became accepted. Once one has discovered a lot of definite-proportions combinations, one may move on from there to an empirically-based version of atomism, as John Dalton did. I've looked for what might qualify as empirical support for pre-Dalton atomism, but it's been hard for me to find.

Johannes Kepler tried valiantly to fit Mars's orbit to a circle, but he failed miserably. Tycho Brahe's observations were some of the best that anyone had ever made, so observational error was also out. So he resorted to some shapes that seemed almost impossibly ugly compared to a circle, succeeding with an ellipse.

Albert Einstein showed that Henrik Lorentz's ether or physically preferred reference frame was physically meaningless. One could redefine it arbitrarily without changing anything observable.

Hermann Minkowski showed that special relativity treated time as much like another space dimension, with Lorentz boosts being a sort of rotation of space and time.

When Thomas Huxley learned about Charles Darwin's idea of natural selection, he said about it "How extremely stupid not to have thought of that!" (http://www.ucl.ac.uk/sts/staff/cain/projects/huxley).

 

[lpetrich]

A very obvious place for conceptual breakthroughs is mathematics, and until very recently, doing theoretical mathematics research has not required advanced technology. In fact, if one is enough of a math geek, one may have committed a lot of math to memory, and one will be able to take it along in one's travels in this thought experiment.

So all you need to do is show your superior command of math. You'd need to find someone who would appreciate it, however, since lots of people have lots of trouble with any math more advanced than simple arithmetic, and often that also.

Let's say that you could do that in the Greco-Roman world. You'd have a heck of a lot to talk about. Place systems, zero, negative numbers, algebra, ... Since geometry is how they understood mathematics, you'd have to explain zero and negative numbers in geometrical ways. Zero = coincident points. Negative numbers = give a line a direction and go in reverse of that direction.

More recently, you'd do more advanced mathematics, but by the late 19th cy., one would have to do some very arcane math to get ahead of the state of the art.

 

[John M. Carr]

Kinda reminds me,

[Source: http://abstrusegoose.com/526]

*cough* TARDIS *cough* :D

 

[jedishrfu]

To the OP, so when are you going to tell us the answer? We may need to know it in the future.

 

[dragoneyes001]

easiest way to get peoples attention: use the shape of a wing and lift to create a glider long before its time 12 hrs of hang time with only a roll down a hill to launch would outperform any doubters expectations.
making the structure of wood with mesh coated in glue to create a crude form of fiberglass with today's gliders body shape and aerodynamics solves 99% of the problems the 19th century attempts had.

want investors? build a hang glider Bamboo and the same crude fiberglass will make the structure plenty strong enough and the rest is fabric hemp denim would be more than strong enough and was quite abundant in the 19th century. let them see you fly for a few miles on little more than a kite and they will fund a real glider.the point is we know what and where thermals are it makes it much easier to make a hang glider work when you do.

next its time for a combustion engine may as well really screw the future inventors a simple carburetor and a straight six block would get that going pretty quick. an acid battery is no problem and making a crude alternator would freak them out at that time too spark plugs would be funny for the inexperienced. most of the rest is metal work you could get a blacksmith making parts.
ethanol can replace gasoline at first. use the engine to power a machine shop and voila you've just changed the industrial age rather drastically. A lathe would advance things way beyond the times makes proper cylinders and pistons let a blacksmith make the oil rings ...

or if you want to stay only on the ground show someone how to create a ten speed bicycle the sprockets and gear changer are definitely doable in the 19th century the cables would be the hardest part because of the metallurgy needed but that should be surmountable like making the changer rod driven.

or if you want to play crazy scientist in the 19th century mix salt peter and sugar into a mold and create model rockets to impress the masses and probably get killed as a warlock or witch depending on where you are.

 

[dragoneyes001]

I think a qualifier should be put on this thought experiment:

What could you do to convince someone?

There's a lot of talk about building electrical devices. Obviously, if a electric motor repairman were the one sent back, he could do that. Then again, if a nuclear physicist were sent back, the answer would be different.

But my ability to do so is pretty rudimentary. Building an electric motor or a reactor is beyond my ability.

build a simple battery A lemon two nails and some copper wire keep it really simple but you can show them an electric light even if it barely lasts a minute.

speaking of lemons here's a sure fire way to be burnt at the stake: show them how to use lemon juice to create invisible ink then simply use a candle to expose what's written on the blank paper.

 

[OmCheeto]

...ld a hang glider Bamboo and th...entury mix salt peter and su...ere you are.

Kirk vs Gorn

ps. You forgot the diamonds, sulfur, and charcoal.

pps. What the hell is saltpeter anyways? google google google. hmmmm...

"The earliest known complete purification process for potassium nitrate was outlined in 1270 by the chemist and engineer Hasan al-Rammah of Syria in his book ..."​

1270? Good grief! Sounds old school.

And where do you get it?

"A major natural source of potassium nitrate was the deposits crystallizing from cave walls and the accumulations of bat guano in caves. Extraction is accomplished by immersing the guano in water for a day, filtering, and harvesting the crystals in the filtered water. Traditionally, guano was the source used in Laos for the manufacture of gunpowder for Bang Fai rockets."​

Bat poop!

I can't speak for why anyone else hangs out at PF, but I know why I do. :)

 

[nitsuj]

That's a point; I'm not keen on the idea of being in a time which didn't understand the importance of clean drinking water, let alone have antiseptics or antibiotics!

Lynching;

"And yet it moves..." I couldn't imagine the frustration of being in such a position regardless of subject.

 

[dragoneyes001]

Kirk vs Gorn

ps. You forgot the diamonds, sulfur, and charcoal.

pps. What the hell is saltpeter anyways? google google google. hmmmm...

"The earliest known complete purification process for potassium nitrate was outlined in 1270 by the chemist and engineer Hasan al-Rammah of Syria in his book ..."​

1270? Good grief! Sounds old school.

And where do you get it?

"A major natural source of potassium nitrate was the deposits crystallizing from cave walls and the accumulations of bat guano in caves. Extraction is accomplished by immersing the guano in water for a day, filtering, and harvesting the crystals in the filtered water. Traditionally, guano was the source used in Laos for the manufacture of gunpowder for Bang Fai rockets."​

Bat poop!

I can't speak for why anyone else hangs out at PF, but I know why I do. :)

Yup Bat Poop was a huge business. want to be rich in the 19th century go to south America and harvest some of the largest deposits of bat guano before they were discovered in our past. make a deal with the natives to process it into nitrate and then ship it to Europe or north to the Colonies

 

[edward]

Has anyone dealt with arriving there naked and alone yet. That may take some quick thinking, I would start by convincing a well dressed gentleman that I was from a wealthy family and had just been robbed of my clothing and money. I would convince him that he will be well rewarded if he could loan me several hundred dollars.(think of it as like getting a research grant.)

Now I can proceed. At that time the food supply was of great importance. I think I could buy some ingredients with my (grant money) and show them how to make simple pesticides from the future. I think that any agricultural improvement would be most impressive at that time. I would crank out a few machines related to agriculture that had not yet been invented.

 

[edward]

Kirk vs Gorn

ps. You forgot the diamonds, sulfur, and charcoal.

pps. What the hell is saltpeter anyways? google google google. hmmmm...

"The earliest known complete purification process for potassium nitrate was outlined in 1270 by the chemist and engineer Hasan al-Rammah of Syria in his book ..."​

1270? Good grief! Sounds old school.

And where do you get it?

"A major natural source of potassium nitrate was the deposits crystallizing from cave walls and the accumulations of bat guano in caves. Extraction is accomplished by immersing the guano in water for a day, filtering, and harvesting the crystals in the filtered water. Traditionally, guano was the source used in Laos for the manufacture of gunpowder for Bang Fai rockets."​

Bat poop!

I can't speak for why anyone else hangs out at PF, but I know why I do. :)

Now for a brief off topic bit of history. Many of us had an encounter with saltpeter while in the military and didn't even know it. We definitely weren't making gunpowder.:D

The switch to saltpeter-free food is scheduled for March 1.

Saltpeter, or potassium nitrate, is an ionic salt added to rocket propellants, fireworks, and fertilizer. In the military, it has been used for centuries as a food additive that suppresses libido.

“Saltpeter’s job is to keep erections down, but we determined that any benefits were outweighed by its potential to cause cancer, glandular issues, and disorders of the reproductive system,” said COL Germaine Thompson, a public health researcher at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/02/military-to-stop-adding-saltpeter-to-chow/

As you were men smokem if you gottem.

 

[Silicon Waffle]

...
As you were men smokem if you gottem.

Smoking is not easy.

 

[Maged Saeed]

Can we say , inventing a machine that enables someone to travel to the past times is quite impossible because even if it would be invented in the following eras , we must have someone who travels from that time to our time or even earlier , and that has never happened yet.!

deserve thinking..,
:)

 

[OmCheeto]

Now for a brief off topic bit of history. Many of us had an encounter with saltpeter while in the military and didn't even know it. We definitely weren't making gunpowder.:D
http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/02/military-to-stop-adding-saltpeter-to-chow/

As you were men smokem if you gottem.

I wasn't going to mention that rumored aspect of the "chemical", but that is quite humorous.

“That’s about the time when the Continental Army decided it needed to do something,” Blackstone added. ​

We'll have to co-post this in the "Things we learned today" thread.

 

[Maged Saeed]

Actually this question and situation recalls me back to a story I have read . It is "King Solomon Mines " and the case is When zolos thought that the foreigners had come from the stars..
Interesting ..,

 

[nomadreid]

It is obvious from a quick scan of the answers that this is a physics forum, as most posts (except a few with musical bents) concerned inventions of a physical nature. It would be easier to transport some ideas around from pure mathematics: just think of someone showing up with the solution to the Riemann hypothesis today. But in any case, whatever you do, there is nothing that could not be interpreted otherwise: if you invent something or foretell its invention, you are likely to be labeled a clever person, and if you predict events that would not be easily predictable (as opposed to, for example, the classic of predicting an eclipse, which would be ho-hum, given that this has been done for most of recorded history), for example an assassination, you would likely either be labeled an accomplice or a mystic. I haven't seen an answer here that would definitively prove... but wait a minute, we are not talking about proof, but about convincing. Ha, you probably don't need to actually be from the future to be able to do that. Just look around at what people can be brought to believe ...

 

[CheedoOne]

It is obvious from a quick scan of the answers that this is a physics forum, as most posts (except a few with musical bents) concerned inventions of a physical nature. It would be easier to transport some ideas around from pure mathematics: just think of someone showing up with the solution to the Riemann hypothesis today. But in any case, whatever you do, there is nothing that could not be interpreted otherwise: if you invent something or foretell its invention, you are likely to be labeled a clever person, and if you predict events that would not be easily predictable (as opposed to, for example, the classic of predicting an eclipse, which would be ho-hum, given that this has been done for most of recorded history), for example an assassination, you would likely either be labeled an accomplice or a mystic. I haven't seen an answer here that would definitively prove... but wait a minute, we are not talking about proof, but about convincing. Ha, you probably don't need to actually be from the future to be able to do that. Just look around at what people can be brought to believe ...

I think you are correct. How can someone convince you TODAY that he or she is from the future? Proving something we haven't thought about just makes the person look smart. Predicting near future events will make them look either lucky or involved in the matter. In the past, people would think you are either an accomplice or a demon. If 200 years ago someone just appeared naked and talking in a language people could hardly understand, it would mean hanging almost immediately. Superstition is hard to avoid.

I think the question should be: How would you survive?

 

[nitsuj]

Ha, you probably don't need to actually be from the future to be able to do that. Just look around at what people can be brought to believe ...

I posted the same sentiment referring to Galileo Galilei, who despite proof, observations, models ect could not convince "authority" of the solar system.

People can believe what they want to, regardless of facts...Grrrrrr.

 

[dragoneyes001]

for one thing you DO NOT try and convince the Church that you are from the future it would = a really bad end.

that leaves industrialists/scientists but not the established school system which is at the time run in most part by the church.

solving the Naked and alone part is as easy as lying or stealing to get at least the minimum needed to avoid trouble.not exactly a huge problem unless you pop up in the middle of the stage at the opera during a sold out show that has no nudity in the script.

food in the countryside is an easy thing as long as you have the slightest knowledge of edible plants (don't kill any animals you'd probably be hanged for poaching.) you could always get a few squirts of milk from cows or goats without having a farmer pitchfork you for it. in a city you'd better come up with something to sell and this is where knowledge can become money very easily. Masons are well respected in pretty much any country and they travel a lot so break out your geometry and math skills and you could quickly be among the masons designing buildings/castles ...etc...especially if you can work out load values that won't fail.ability to cut stone is not as necessary if you can design better than the local guild does. create a simple bubble level or even show them how to create a water level many of today's tools would be easy to pre invent.

any good at geography? then shipping is an area you could take advantage of the knowledge.
history buffs can use political changes to quickly make a buck selling info of where Napoleon will attack from to Moscow or many other conflicts...
there are so many ways to make what we know now pay our way in the past without looking like your nuts and as far as convincing someone that your from the future you'd need to chose who you convince before even trying to.

 

[mfb]

How can someone convince you TODAY that he or she is from the future? Proving something we haven't thought about just makes the person look smart. Predicting near future events will make them look either lucky or involved in the matter.

You can be too lucky beyond reasonable doubt.

If you can predict the precise results of multiple national votes, various sport events and whatever, you soon reach a level that makes time travel at least an interesting explanation.

Many astronomical objects are easy to find if you know where to look - but you cannot look everywhere with the best telescopes. Predict the positions of various objects that are just visible with the best telescopes today, and you either have built a secret supertelescope in your backyard or you have knowledge that did not exist on Earth before.
Even better objects are supernovae, gamma ray bursts and all other phenomena where something (relatively) bright appears without any warning. Impossible to predict with current technology, but trivial if you have records of them. Shooting stars would also be possible, but I am not aware of good systematic records of them.

If you can present a theory that unifies quantum field theory and general relativity, this is not a proof that you are from the future - but you will get enough funding to do whatever you need to demonstrate more knowledge.

The more different topics you can combine the less likely it gets that you are extremely clever and lucky everywhere at the same time.

 

[Curious3141]

This is an excellent point, hilariously made. We're all technical people here with knowledge and skills far beyond that of 200 years ago, but our expertise is entirely contextual. That context being the modern world. Personally I have no idea how I would do any of the work I do day-to-day without the machines, computers and supplies ordered from sigma-Aldrich. I have no idea how to make the vast majority of those from scratch with modern technology, let alone that of 200 years ago. Unless your training is in some fundamental mechanics or you have a personal interest with the history of your field you'll be of negligible to no use.

To put it succinctly, that's why we live in a society. :D