Time travel thought experiment game

[Moriarty]

My SO showed me this on reddit and we had fun with it. If you were sent back to the early 19th century naked and alone how would you convince someone that you were from the future and not crazy? No tricks allowed (meaning you can't pull a raygun from your colon). Let's hear it.

 

[jedishrfu]

Are you suggesting implementing the Grandfather paradox and then disappear?

 

[leroyjenkens]

Unless you found someone extremely credulous, it would be impossible in the short term. You would have to wait until time nears on some dates where you can make some predictions based on your knowledge of early 19th century history.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Interesting question. I'm struggling to think of an answer. Assuming the time travel didn't involve any geographical travel I'd appear on the streets of Victorian London. If I tried to convince people I was from the future is probably end up in a sanitarium (terrible as they were that might be the lucky option versus being sent to a workhouse). I suppose I'd might be able to get out of the situation if I could introduce some future technology, that might be hard though without pre-existing tools. Antibiotics are about the only thing I can think of I'd have a chance of making.

 

[Jonathan Scott]

I might well be able to work out how to make a little DC electric motor with resources available at the time, which might well look like magic from the future. As a party trick I could predict the themes of new works by famous composers.

 

[zoki85]

I might well be able to work out how to make a little DC electric motor with resources available at the time, which might well look like magic from the future.

Haha, not bad. Also, simple Hertz-like experiments with radio waves comes to mind. Before Maxwell, before telegraph...

 

[zoobyshoe]

I might well be able to work out how to make a little DC electric motor with resources available at the time, which might well look like magic from the future.

The DC motor with commutator was invented in 1832. You would only seem like a gifted engineer to produce it before that. A telephone or Marconi type radio would be more convincing.

 

[Jonathan Scott]

The DC motor with commutator was invented in 1832. You would only seem like a gifted engineer to produce it before that. A telephone or Marconi type radio would be more convincing.

The date is quite important. I was assuming around 1800, and the connection between electricity and magnetism wasn't discovered until around Oersted's experiments around 1819. And I know I can make a demonstration DC motor because I made one for a "show and tell" at school around 1970, based on instructions in the "Ladybird Junior Science" book "Magnets, Bulbs and Batteries". In that case I had easy access to insulated thin wire, batteries and a horseshoe magnet. Bare copper or silver wire can be insulated of course with coats of shellac or similar. A voltaic pile can be created with a chain of cups using zinc, copper and brine or similar. They had magnets in 1800 (not very strong), and if one wasn't available in the right shape one could either get one made of wrought iron or use pieces of iron to extend a lodestone or bar magnet. If the armature is carefully balanced, it takes very little power to operate it.

Of course, if one is going to get that hypothetical, demonstrating that would clearly disrupt the timeline of scientific discovery!

 

[Medicol]

I don't need to prove to anyone I came from the future. I don't want to be a wacky scientist, I'd choose to live with them, be a member among them and the smartest among them .

 

[Jonathan Scott]

I don't need to prove to anyone I came from the future. I don't want to be a wacky scientist, I'd choose to live with them, be a member among them and the smartest among them .

Wouldn't you miss Physics Forums?

 

[Jonathan Scott]

Antibiotics are about the only thing I can think of I'd have a chance of making.

That's a point; I'm not keen on the idea of being in a time which didn't understand the importance of clean drinking water, let alone have antiseptics or antibiotics!

 

[Medicol]

Wouldn't you miss Physics Forums?

Definitely not.
Maybe because we have different views about science, religion, life and ignorance. :D
I like songs whose melodies sooth my mood, not the lyrics they may sound . To me it's always hard to make one good melody but words to rhyme with it are plentiful. :D

 

[Ryan_m_b]

That's a point; I'm not keen on the idea of being in a time which didn't understand the importance of clean drinking water, let alone have antiseptics or antibiotics!

Looking at that point in broader terms would anyone want to live in their respective nations 200 years ago? From a modern perspective they resemble some of the worst, extreme nations of today. Most people here are from the US, if you were sent back to christmas 1814 you'd be arriving in a nation that still had a sizable slave trade and upheld manifest destiny. For English posters like myself we'd arrive in pre-victorian England, a place of extreme wealth inequality, rigid social class, workhouses and votes only for upper class male landowners.

The past is a foreign country, and to me it's as enticing a holiday destination as North Korea.

 

[Jonathan Scott]

Definitely not.
Maybe because we have different views about science, religion, life and ignorance. :D
I like songs whose melodies sooth my mood, not the lyrics they may sound . To me it's always hard to make one good melody but words to rhyme with it are plentiful. :D

Ok, the Physics Forum bit was a joke. And I mostly prefer instrumental music to singing. But if I was in 1800 and had access to a violin or piano I could certainly play some interesting music.

 

[Jonathan Scott]

... but I think I'd have more problems with the "not crazy" requirement. I have difficulty persuading my management at work that I'm not crazy. It takes me years to get through to each manager, but as soon as I get close, they give me a new one.

 

[zoki85]

Maybe because we have different views about science, religion, life and ignorance. :D
I like songs whose melodies sooth my mood, not the lyrics they may sound . To me it's always hard to make one good melody but words to rhyme with it are plentiful. :D

Greensleevs 4u then. Some melodies are "ethernal" regardless of century they are composed in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wARiOb80Zr0

 

[DivergentSpectrum]

screw trying to convince people. id just let them think I am a prophet/wizard

 

[collinsmark]

Kinda reminds me,

[Source: http://abstrusegoose.com/526]

 

[leroyjenkens]

So you have time to actually go places and do stuff? I thought it was sort of the Terminator scenario. You show up naked from the future, and the first people you see, you have to explain to them, while still being naked, that you are from the future, and somehow prove it right then and there.

 

[OmCheeto]

Ok, the Physics Forum bit was a joke. And I mostly prefer instrumental music to singing. But if I was in 1800 and had access to a violin or piano I could certainly play some interesting music.

I took it quite seriously. I suppose the problem would be as to how much of a "Renaissance Man" you were, and how much of your scientific history you could remember. You could create transistors from scratch, build a couple of rudimentary computers, get the local blacksmith to make some copper wire, set the two computers across the street from each other, teach the new IT techs ASCII code, have one send a simple physics question across the street, and have the other one answer the question.

You'd have not only invented the internet, you'd have invented Physics Forums!

The question would be, who can remember how to make a transistor, from scratch, with materials available 200 years ago?

So, I can imagine some hurdles:

Setting: December 23, 1814, Bosham England

ChronOm; "I need a semi-conductor material! STAT!"
Blacksmith; "What"?
ChronOm; "You know, a kind of metal stuff. Silicon or Germanium will do".
Blacksmith; "What is Silicon"?
ChronOm; "Silicon is an element that makes up sand".
Blacksmith; "Sand is made of sand. Have you been to the pub? And why are you naked? You have been to the pub. Fanny, run and get the constable."
ChronOm; runs away...​

Wait a minute. This story reminds me of something Mark Twain wrote, about (google google google) 125 years ago.
This thread is a cliché.

ps. Never read the book. Sounds like a fun read though.

 

[Borg]

So you have time to actually go places and do stuff? I thought it was sort of the Terminator scenario. You show up naked from the future, and the first people you see, you have to explain to them, while still being naked, that you are from the future, and somehow prove it right then and there.

With my luck, the first person I would meet would be the village idiot. Convincing him wouldn't exactly help me with everyone else.

I think that I would just quietly rise to power before they understood what was happening. Then I could reshape society as I pleased.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

The question would be, who can remember how to make a transistor, from scratch, with materials available 200 years ago?

This is an excellent point, hilariously made. We're all technical people here with knowledge and skills far beyond that of 200 years ago, but our expertise is entirely contextual. That context being the modern world. Personally I have no idea how I would do any of the work I do day-to-day without the machines, computers and supplies ordered from sigma-Aldrich. I have no idea how to make the vast majority of those from scratch with modern technology, let alone that of 200 years ago. Unless your training is in some fundamental mechanics or you have a personal interest with the history of your field you'll be of negligible to no use.

 

[OmCheeto]

With my luck, the first person I would meet would be the village idiot. Convincing him wouldn't exactly help me with everyone else.

I think that I would just quietly rise to power before they understood what was happening. Then I could reshape society as I pleased.

That's kind of a reverse of another plot. When village idiots are sent back in time.

hmmm...
I've decided, that I want to be sent back to Tutayev Russia, as I want to confirm the story.

ps. It appears the wiki entry has been modified, since my post, as it no longer references the town drunk.
pps. The original name of the town was Romanov-Borisoglebsk. Anyone remember the Romanovs?

 

[Borg]

That's kind of a reverse of another plot. When village idiots are sent back in time.

hmmm...
I've decided, that I want to be sent back to Tutayev Russia, as I want to confirm the story.

ps. It appears the wiki entry has been modified, since my post, as it no longer references the town drunk.
pps. The original name of the town was Romanov-Borisoglebsk. Anyone remember the Romanovs?

I think that after this thread runs its course, an interesting variation would be to ask where and when people would like to be sent along with what they would study in advance.

 

[jedishrfu]

I think the blacksmith have asked about STAT first?

Next Bing Crosby needs to play the part of ChronOm otherwise we'll be living in a different timeline.

And the movie / book is A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur''s Court.

 

[OmCheeto]

I think that after this thread runs its course, an interesting variation would be to ask where and when people would like to be sent along with what they would study in advance.

After watching Mr. Tutayev get shot, I'd like to travel and visit my new girlfriend Sadi, and ask Leonard, what he thinks about the fact that people use his girly middle name.

 

[OmCheeto]

I think the blacksmith have asked about STAT first?

I disagree. I think he'd think I was just another crazed German immigrant: "Stadt"!

Next Bing Crosby needs to play the part of ChronOm otherwise we'll be living in a different timeline.

I read that as "Bill Cosby", originally. Which would require a name change to; NeoChromeOm.

And the movie / book is A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur''s Court.

/me does retro, raise the roof dance.

 

[Moriarty]

Wow, featured :D I wasn't getting notifications so I thought the thread had died.

One thing my SO was interested in was the fact that she was a woman and ultimately she probably wouldn't be able to convince anyone, since they'd see her naked and just assume she was a whore, and she doesn't have the background in physics like I do to derive Maxwell's Equations or something of the like. So she'd probably have to get a menial job cleaning a nice house or working the streets. Male privilege eh?

 

[Medicol]

Wow, featured :D I wasn't getting notifications so I thought the thread had died.

One thing my SO was interested in was the fact that she was a woman and ultimately she probably wouldn't be able to convince anyone, since they'd see her naked and just assume she was a whore, and she doesn't have the background in physics like I do to derive Maxwell's Equations or something of the like. So she'd probably have to get a menial job cleaning a nice house or working the streets. Male privilege eh?

Oh nooo, whatz up doc? oo)

 

[Jonathan Scott]

In real situations involving strangers, a sense of humour can be very useful. If I landed up naked in some odd place, I'd probably want to attribute it to my falling for a prank (such as spontaneously vanishing clothes), so that firstly people can have a good laugh but then might be helpful.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I'd explain the nakedness by saying I was robbed of money and clothes by lowlives. That would be believable back then. A woman could claim she was both robbed and sexually assaulted. In both cases this would garner sympathy. You'd need a lot of help at first just to get food, clothing and shelter. Convincing people you were from the future would have to wait till you were established.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

In real situations involving strangers, a sense of humour can be very useful. If I landed up naked in some odd place, I'd probably want to attribute it to my falling for a prank (such as spontaneously vanishing clothes), so that firstly people can have a good laugh but then might be helpful.

My sense of humour is quite mismatched with my grandads generation, let alone my great-great-great-great-great Grandads!

 

[OmCheeto]

Looking at that point in broader terms would anyone want to live in their respective nations 200 years ago? From a modern perspective they resemble some of the worst, extreme nations of today. Most people here are from the US, if you were sent back to christmas 1814 you'd be arriving in a nation that still had a sizable slave trade and upheld manifest destiny. For English posters like myself we'd arrive in pre-victorian England, a place of extreme wealth inequality, rigid social class, workhouses and votes only for upper class male landowners.

The past is a foreign country, and to me it's as enticing a holiday destination as North Korea.

I hadn't even thought about location very much. It's probably a good thing I picked England. The closest Europeans from where I live would have been 100 miles away. A small fur trading post, constructed only 3 years earlier.

And, OMG, the natives. What a hoot. I can't even post most of what Lewis and Clark wrote about them. Language!

The nicest thing I could find:

Lewis & Clark Among the Clatsops
...
They were short. They were fat. Since it rained almost all the time, they didn’t bother much with clothes.
...
If the Indians thought Lewis and Clark were dumb pigeons, the explorers thought they were ugly and alien.
...

Actually, I think I'd get along with the natives much better than with the Lewis & Clark group.
But the conditions? I think the North Koreans might have it better than the Clatsops did back then.
Prostitution, slavery, thievery, and nudity, were the norm. And venereal disease was widespread.
And the weather. Don't forget about the weather.

 

[derek10]

Was electricity discovered back then? If no, then try to build a generator and make sparks or a bulb and if yes then try to build something modern: radio, a simple mechanical TV transmission or at least a theoretical explanation,

 

[Algr]

This is easy:

"Future technology is why I am so fat!"

 

[smartfatstupid]

I'm in California. I would go back to 1400-1500. I would pretend like the future never happened to me.

 

[WWGD]

You appear naked? Is it cold outside?

 

[Algr]

You appear naked? Is it cold outside?

Well if it is 200 years on the dot, then you arrive on Dec 24th. And if you forget to specify a date, then Jan 1 is likely. So yea, begging for clothes will happen before you tell anyone about the future.

 

[Silicon Waffle]

...
Prostitution, slavery, thievery, and nudity, were the norm. And venereal disease was widespread.
And the weather. Don't forget about the weather.

 

[Astronuc]

My SO showed me this on reddit and we had fun with it. If you were sent back to the early 19th century naked and alone how would you convince someone that you were from the future and not crazy? No tricks allowed (meaning you can't pull a raygun from your colon). Let's hear it.

The first order of business would be to find some clothes!

One would have to mention in some detail some historical events, e.g., elections of a US President or the outcome a war taking place.

Scientifically one could discuss the works of John Dalton, Jöns Jacob Berzelius, Leopold Gmelin, Johann Wolfgang Döbereiner regarding the periodic table.

One could construct an induction machine with which to generate an AC current, and with transformers, do some high voltage experiments. One could also construct an airfoil or wing of a plane, and even construct a plane, and perhaps a wingsuit. One would have to find someone who could do vacuum tubes in order to make some electronic components.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube

 

[Silicon Waffle]

That thinking about people of 19th century as those in third world countries for their limited development in technologies or worse their ignorance in business marketing skills really saddens me. (this sentence is hard to write correctly as I had to edit it several times. I hope it's understandable now .Anyway, those doing so to me are pretty idiotic in fact. Cheers! )
I think being arrested for being illegally nude in public places isn't uncommon. 19th century people may kick your butt because of your public nudity. Most are still living in feudal societies in which they have to covere all their body parts nice and clean with any cloth pieces.

 

[julian]

I need you clothes, your boots and your motocycle

 

[julian]

Time travel isn't a game.

 

[Medicol]

I need you clothes, your boots and your motocycle

The time travel plan is inside an excel file. I'll send you via gmail tomorrow at 11:59 AM local time. Have a good journey to 18 century. Please don't mess up my time machine. I need it at least while it still offers me highest feeling (until now).

 

[derek10]

Future prediction for unexpected short term events

Unless you lose your memory too

 

[h6ss]

My SO showed me this on reddit and we had fun with it. If you were sent back to the early 19th century naked and alone how would you convince someone that you were from the future and not crazy? No tricks allowed (meaning you can't pull a raygun from your colon). Let's hear it.

Of course it depends on the year I would travel to, but I'd probably start by predicting the First World War and events like the U.S. Stock Market crash of 1929. That is, considering I can't do anything to prevent them. Also, I like the idea about Hertz' experiments. I think predicting or discovering things in very different and unrelated fields would help proving that we're from the future and not just prodigious geniuses in a field in particular.

A harder question would be how would you convince people from the future that you're from the past if you were to travel forward in time?

 

[mfb]

ps. Never read the book. Sounds like a fun read though.

I read 2/3 of it. The old English (combined with even older English) doesn't make it easy if English is not your native language. The way the time traveler proves his knowledge (or "magic") is very cheap and many details are not mentioned at all, but some aspects are still interesting.

@derek10: How many events in the early 19th century do you remember? How many of them would get known to the people around you? It does not help to predict some random event somewhere in the world if no one ever learns about it.
If you know the precise date and place in advance, it is much easier of course.

Electricity is probably a good starting point once the basics (clothing, food, ...) are done.
The oil drop experiment (1909!) could be possible if you get reliable electric fields. It would demonstrate quantized charges.
You can try to reproduce the double-slit experiment (early 19th century?) and the photoelectric effect (1887). More precise spectroscopy can be interesting as well.
Diffusion and brownian motion (discovered 1827) can both be explained (quantitatively) with knowledge about atoms.
You can discover Neptune (1846). Galileo found it in 1612/13 but did not recognize it as a planet.
Diodes and triodes are great if you get access to the mentioned vacuum tubes. They allow the construction of simple electronic calculators.

I would be careful with quantum mechanics as it sounds crazy...

 

[Redbelly98]

Unless you found someone extremely credulous, it would be impossible in the short term. You would have to wait until time nears on some dates where you can make some predictions based on your knowledge of early 19th century history.

That was pretty much my thoughts. And if you could study up on the history in advance, you shouldn't have to wait very long.

I'd stay away from "predicting" the science developments just because very few people would know what you're even talking about.

 

[derek10]

@derek10: How many events in the early 19th century do you remember? How many of them would get known to the people around you? It does not help to predict some random event somewhere in the world if no one ever learns about it.
If you know the precise date and place in advance, it is much easier of course.[/QUOTE]

Hi In 1879 a person called Einstein will born and change science with a thing called relativity that explains blahblahblah...
Hi, in 1889 a person called Hitler will born and will lead to a new ideology and war that will cause blahblahblah
To name a few cases and happened at, I would think there are more but I know zero history lol at first they would think I am mad until those events happen (and are almost universally known)

 

[Algr]

Well it is no use predicting things that aren't going to happen for 50 years. Ultimately this is all about your knowledge of historical details. If you had warning that this is going to happen, you could predict the next election, natural disaster, or some other detail.