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Tired of having your Ideals Challenged?

  1. Feb 7, 2013 #1
    I don't know, I seem to get in trouble very often and I do not know why. All I do is challenge authority. Is it wrong to challenge them? Why do other people who I am associated with get punished also, why do my so called friends tell me not to challenge this "power to be"? I am curious about why authority has so much of this status? Is this like some type of Luciferian disorder to dissent against authoritative and controlling beings? Should I just shut up and listen because "women/children should not be seen, nor heard." Which seems like we(as humans beings) should follow like the heard, and be heard animals. How do you feel about Authority? Does your heart pound and feel like it is about to come out of your throat and flop on to the floor? Share those thoughts. |・ω・`) *peak-a-boo!*
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 7, 2013 #2


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    Before you challenge authority, you should make sure they can't point out that you are a fool. If you don't have proof you are right, you're just another person to be ignored (the nicest way I could put it).

    The old quote "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt". Think about it before you decide to speak.

    If you have researched thoroughly, have checked your facts repeatedly and think you have found some thing no one else has managed to find, go back and find where you made an error.

    If you are so sure you've made no error, then see if anyone that is an authority on the subject is willing to review your work, and be ready for them to point out the error you missed.

    And maybe you are that one in a billion that didn't make an error. You need to have made friends along the way with the people that have specialized in this field that can help you make your work known.

    This is a lesson in any job, at any level, if you truly think you have something new to offer, the way to get it accepted is by asking, not challenging.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  4. Feb 7, 2013 #3
    Although the masters make the rules
    For the wise men and the fools
    I got nothing, Ma, to live up to

    For them that must obey authority
    That they do not respect in any degree
    Who despise their jobs, their destinies
    Speak jealously of them that are free
    Cultivate their flowers to be
    Nothing more than something they invest in
  5. Feb 7, 2013 #4


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    Forrest Gump: Lieutenant Dan, what are you doing here?
    Lieutenant Daniel Taylor: I'm here to try out my sea legs.
    Forrest Gump: But you ain't got no legs, Lieutenant Dan.
    Lieutenant Daniel Taylor: [mildly irritated, but understanding] Yes... yes, I know that. You wrote me a letter, you idiot!
  6. Feb 7, 2013 #5
    Look buddy : there's only two intelligent ways to deal with "authority" and "power" : exert it as wisely as you could or get away from it as far as you can (true geniuses can do both at the same time). Those who want to "challenge", to "obey" or to share power are generally those you have to avoid in life : they embody what is most silly in human beings : illusions, delusions, verbiage, moralism, bad ambition and/or sheeplike behavior .
    Very few people are really free in the world we live in. Even fewer people have the ability to really free others : it's neither in confrontation nor in obedience to power that you'll acquire more purpose, sharpness and intelligence... But I won't make the mistake to pontificate on these issues for you : do the job and free yourself first from yourself and then, only then, look to the world around.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  7. Feb 7, 2013 #6

    jim hardy

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    Ever heard the old sayings

    " It was amazing how much wiser my Dad got getween the time i was fifteen and thirty-five."

    "I am no longer young enough to know everything."

    Watch some nature shows and examine yourself. If your challenging authority is just for your own 'feel good, to be respected', then it's just male antler-clashing and that belongs in the animal world.
  8. Feb 7, 2013 #7
    The question is, who is this authority?
  9. Feb 7, 2013 #8


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    --Kris Kristofferson

    OP: alright, so you question authority. Most people go through a phase like that, it's part of becoming an analytical thinker. Then as you mature a bit you realize you must listen when authority answers your question.
  10. Feb 7, 2013 #9
    It's actually what I've said... Once you become an "analytical thinker", you realize that it is all phrases and words, "authority" and "rebellion" alike...
    You don't have to buy them anymore, just look at them with irony and detachement... Listen, yes, but don't believe...
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  11. Feb 7, 2013 #10
    Well you could be right. but some people just resort to dirty, under-handed tactics, for example bashing on a persons confidence, or attempts at invading a person's personal boundaries. It isn't a real intelligent way of going about things, but still I find it hard to ignore people even if all the facts aren't completely straight.

    There is a quote which reminds me of your quote ironically enough "Half a fool, yet Half a Sage" I guess what I am trying to say is that anything even if the idea isn't complete there still exist a certain degree of consistency, and vice versa. Although, I do agree with you on the fact that if you want to change the establishment you gotta know how to receive!(as in asking and not challenging).

    No, I have never heard of this saying until now. I understand what you mean, I think I do any way. I guess it isn't really challenging them, more like an attempt to correct a mistake they have made, yet I do not have enough status to do such a thing. Evo said something true
    . I still don't think I can comprehend how the ego belongs in the animal world?

    authority is any of the established belief systems, it is the system in which you are called attention to, for being full of delusions. I don't think there could be any more than that.

    That is the problem people don't like to answer questions they don't know who to answer so they come up with an excuse.
    "I said so."
    I am fond of questioning and being on the pursuit of knowledge, always adventuring, searching for new ways how to do things. I would just take an,
    "I do not know..."
    and then maybe some words of encouragement then something that is detrimental to the mental health, ya know?

    I find it hard to believe a person who isn't talking to me. When a person commands you to do something yes it is communication, but it is not talking. If you are detached how can you be in the moment, spontaneous? Being detached during the moment you are in "rebellion" means you aren't listening, or trying to understand and comprehend what the "authority" has to say. You are just doing and not actively engaged in trying to understand what they have to say, ya know?
  12. Feb 7, 2013 #11

    jim hardy

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    You can't change other people. You can only change how you interact with them.
    Curiously, that forces them to interact differently with you.

    Some years ago I found this book helpful in dealing with difficult people.


    There's plenty of self help books about interpersonal dealings. I read quite a few of them in my forties.

    You sound a thoughtful person. Good luck to you on your life journey.

    old jim
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
  13. Feb 7, 2013 #12


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    and 'choose one's battles wisely'.

    It is best to use one's opponent's mass to one's advantage. A derivative of a Shao-lin proverb.

    One must always challenge authority, especially poor/bad authority!
  14. Feb 8, 2013 #13
    Sergeant: Gump, why are we here?
    Gump: To do whatever you say.
    Sergeant: Gump, you must be a genius!
  15. Feb 8, 2013 #14


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    It's stupid to always challenge authority. Only challenge if you have good reason. There is a difference in questioning bad information and blindly questioning authority. I'm surprised that you would say such a thing Astronuc. Do you actually believe what you posted? Should members always question our rules without a reason?

    Perhaps it is wiser to say "don't fear questioning authority"?
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  16. Feb 8, 2013 #15


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    I disagree with this as a definition for authority, it's much broader. Authority is the right/privilege to decide on an issue or perform an action e.g. speaking on an issue. There are many types of authority, a doctor for example is an authority on medical matters.

    Of course one should challenge authority where there is reasonable grounds too and it is safe to do so. By all means question if someone deserves to have authority on a matter if you have a reasonable criticism (e.g. A politicians argument is logically flawed, a doctors statement contradicts medical concensus, the rational behind the authority status is unjustified etc) and it is a wise opportunity to challenge.
  17. Feb 8, 2013 #16
    There is no power over you that you do not accept.
  18. Feb 8, 2013 #17


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    Try telling that to an army rampaging through your home town, or a legal system that classifies your behaviour or status as a crime, or a business with unethical practice that can outspend you in a protracted court case, or even to a social and economic set up that condemns you to poverty and destitution.
  19. Feb 8, 2013 #18
    The OP reads as an adolescent.

    So I'd say your comment is really whats going on, and imo is part of growing up. Of course some are more belligerent than others, especially as "losses" accumulate.
  20. Feb 8, 2013 #19
  21. Feb 8, 2013 #20


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    By challenge, I mean question.

    With respect to challenge, I don't imply being aggressive or provocative, nor did I mention 'blindly questioning'. Certainly one should have a good reason, such as the authority is wrong or acting in an arbitary or capricious manner, to challenge/question authority.

    Of course, one should be judicious in one's actions.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  22. Feb 8, 2013 #21
    For what it's worth, not -or rather insufficient- challenging authority has contributed to the largest air mishap of all times.

    Not all is on internet but here is the most essential:

    There are hours of discussions with apparant reasons why the the captain thought why he was cleared for take off, but the flight engineer should have challenged authority: "No sir, abort, abort, abort, we're not cleared for take off". That might have saved his life and that of 582 others.

    As a result, in many flying organisations, even the youngest crew/flight member is obliged to challenge authority and will not be sanctioned if his/her concerns were wrong in hindsight.


    It should also be noted that the captain was the #1 rated air line pilot of that time.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  23. Feb 8, 2013 #22


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    And how many disasters/deaths have resulted from people not following instructions?

    I was watching a show about Pastuer developing the rabies vaccine. He was challenged by his assistant to the point of his assistant quitting, but luckily Pastuer was confident that he was right and went ahead with the treatment anyway and he was right. This saved hundreds of lives the first year and paved the way to the many life saving vaccines we have today.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  24. Feb 8, 2013 #23
    Never my ideals need challenging, wisdom thrives on discord. Although I will say this the next person who challenges my parking space while I am manoevering in will die.
  25. Feb 8, 2013 #24
    rebel without a cause
  26. Feb 8, 2013 #25


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    To the OP: Have you actually listened to your friends and let them have their say? Perhaps the OP should spend some time listening, figure out why their friends respect said authority, and then evaluate a response. People will not listen to you if you don't listen to them.
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