To Anyone Who Thinks Universities Don't Indoctrinate

  • Thread starter Economist
  • Start date

opus

I'm suprised to hear you talk like this. Usually you're rambling on about society this, and society that, and how it's usually not individuals fault. I'm suprised that you don't think just because there are so many liberals in academia, that they'd use their "power" and "influence" which you always state is so important, to indoctrinate the students.
And I'm surprised to see that you're worried about academia at all, given your ramblings on the superiority of economics and the free market.
Well, it's generally different with public universities. When everyone pays for them with tax money, then tax payers have more of a claim on how they are run, etc.
Yes, and part of taxpayers demands is a learning environment, not a protest zone so you can pitch the anti-hate vs the hate protests. (pro-life vs pro-choice, gay vs anti-gay, etc.)
Did you listen to the whole thing? He documents cases like these. Suprise, suprise, none of them had liberal ideas.
Boo hoo denied tenure. I know people who blame not getting tenure on things like blogging. The fact of the matter is the entire process is arbitrary and it has more to do with the academic policies and structure in place than some grand liberal conspiracy theory.
Kors also brings up a good point about how academia claims to care a lot about diversity, but mainly on race, sexual orientation, gender (even though women get more college degrees then men now), etc. He asks, "Is this the only kind of diversity?" and claims that they don't care about diversity of ideas. I think he's pretty accurate on this point.
Oh, so you're saying that academia should care about diversity, race, sexual orientation, and gender.. and at the same time, tolerate ideas such as anti-gay (homophobia), anti-black (racist), anti-female (misogyny) ones?

I love how you claim for "equality" of ideas, even when it's blatantly used to erode the equality set in place.
 

Economist

Again thanks for some anecdotal evidence on how "liberal" the Republicans are, going against the free market. How about you give some evidence. It is fair knowledge that the Republicans are conservative. Maybe they're not conservative enough for you, but that's your neoliberal problem. Yes, they may support farm subsidies - but so do the Democrats.
Maybe you didn't know this, but public opinion polls are not anecdotal evidence (actually they are data).

Well thank you for more anecdotes that contribute nothing but garbage. Do you want me to go make personal attacks against neoliberal economists who seem to get many things "confused" and see the world as "pro-market" and "anti-market" too? I can do that just as well as you can.
You already do make personal attacks, in fact, it seems to be the only way you know how to argue. I guess I wouldn't expect anything different from someone as emotionally driven as yourself.

And I'm surprised to see that you're worried about academia at all, given your ramblings on the superiority of economics and the free market.
Well, I do think that colleges would be a lot better if it was completely (or at least mostly) privatized, but that is beside the point. I'm actually going to get a PhD, so I do care about academia. Luckily for me, most economic professors care mostly about teaching students how to do high caliber research as opposed to teaching them what to think. My personal views have come mostly through reading for pleasure.

Yes, and part of taxpayers demands is a learning environment, not a protest zone so you can pitch the anti-hate vs the hate protests. (pro-life vs pro-choice, gay vs anti-gay, etc.)
Not a protest zone? Weren't you the one earlier talking about protests during the Vietnam War? Also, would you support academic policy that students wouldn't be allowed to protest? Policies that would not allow students to protest things like globalization, supreme court decisions on gay marriage, Iraq War, etc? It seems you'd only like to protect the kinds of protests, you're personally against. Haven't you ever heard that free speech is supposed to protect the speech you disagree with, not the things you agree with?

Boo hoo denied tenure. I know people who blame not getting tenure on things like blogging. The fact of the matter is the entire process is arbitrary and it has more to do with the academic policies and structure in place than some grand liberal conspiracy theory.
Denied tenure is a pretty big deal, especially if it was based on political ideology as opposed to research productivity. I doubt you would say "Boo hoo, that person was denied tenure because they were a minority, a women, etc." You would take those things very seriously. You're inconsistency on issues makes you look even more biased. I may have a radical ideology, but at least I generally keep it logically consistent.

Oh, so you're saying that academia should care about diversity, race, sexual orientation, and gender.. and at the same time, tolerate ideas such as anti-gay (homophobia), anti-black (racist), anti-female (misogyny) ones?
Yeah, as if there is no ground in between. In case you haven't noticed, being more tolerant of conservative views would not have to mean they tolerate anti-gay, anti-black, or anti-female things. There you go again exaggerating the original claim I was making.

I love how you claim for "equality" of ideas, even when it's blatantly used to erode the equality set in place.
First of all, I am not saying that all ideas are created equal. Actually far from it, which is exactly why I have critized many of the fallacious arguments you've made in regards to economics.

What I am saying is that it's interesting that academia tends to discriminate based on ideas they disagree with.

And how can you say that excepting more view points will erode equality? If someone has a different view point, it doesn't really effect you. It's not like we're saying that people's behaviors can be whatever they want. But rather that people are allowed the freedom and liberty to have ideas that they want. There are many more reasons to regulate and restrict behavior, than there are reasons to regulate and restrict speech and ideas.
 

opus

Maybe you didn't know this, but public opinion polls are not anecdotal evidence (actually they are data).
I don't see a single link or evidence you refer to in your post. I can just make up numbers and stories when making my posts too, you know.
You already do make personal attacks, in fact, it seems to be the only way you know how to argue. I guess I wouldn't expect anything different from someone as emotionally driven as yourself.
Says that guy who anguishes over liberals being "supposedly" unable to differentiate with libertarians and conservatives, and the guy who discredits an entire field of social science because they "look too hard for evidence" in the private sector.
Well, I do think that colleges would be a lot better if it was completely (or at least mostly) privatized, but that is beside the point. I'm actually going to get a PhD, so I do care about academia. Luckily for me, most economic professors care mostly about teaching students how to do high caliber research as opposed to teaching them what to think. My personal views have come mostly through reading for pleasure.
Oh, so now non-economics professors as indoctrinating their students? These economics professors must be angels, then, compared to the rest of academia. Thanks for another implicit ungrounded accusation.
Not a protest zone? Weren't you the one earlier talking about protests during the Vietnam War? Also, would you support academic policy that students wouldn't be allowed to protest? Policies that would not allow students to protest things like globalization, supreme court decisions on gay marriage, Iraq War, etc? It seems you'd only like to protect the kinds of protests, you're personally against. Haven't you ever heard that free speech is supposed to protect the speech you disagree with, not the things you agree with?
Free speech is protecting hate speech? I criticize hate speech, and you somehow put up a strawman saying that I am anti-free speech against whatever I disagree with.

And university is not a protest zone, and I never said anything about supporting Vietnam War protests in academia. I said how academia has changed in comparison to those days.

But again, putting more words in my mouth, not that I expected more.
Denied tenure is a pretty big deal, especially if it was based on political ideology as opposed to research productivity. I doubt you would say "Boo hoo, that person was denied tenure because they were a minority, a women, etc." You would take those things very seriously. You're inconsistency on issues makes you look even more biased. I may have a radical ideology, but at least I generally keep it logically consistent.
Well guess what, tenure is an arbitrary process if you haven't noticed. People can be denied tenure for any reason. And you somehow make another assumption that I support the tenure process as it stands, which I do not. I said that people have been denied tenure for speculated reasons such as spending too much time blogging. And for some reason, you think that I'm accepting of this, in so far to accuse me of saying that I would support someone being denied tenure because of their race or gender. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about to accuse me of doing that.
Yeah, as if there is no ground in between. In case you haven't noticed, being more tolerant of conservative views would not have to mean they tolerate anti-gay, anti-black, or anti-female things. There you go again exaggerating the original claim I was making.
I never said anything bad about conservative views, or being intolerant of different views of the political spectrum. I said I was against hate speech, and here you are twisting my words once more.
What I am saying is that it's interesting that academia tends to discriminate based on ideas they disagree with.
"interesting"? It's terrible to discriminate against dissenting ideas. Luckily, however, it is not prevalent and there is no liberal conspiracy theory that runs universities. Otherwise, every economics department would have been abolished ages ago.
And how can you say that excepting more view points will erode equality? If someone has a different view point, it doesn't really effect you. It's not like we're saying that people's behaviors can be whatever they want. But rather that people are allowed the freedom and liberty to have ideas that they want. There are many more reasons to regulate and restrict behavior, than there are reasons to regulate and restrict speech and ideas.
So you're saying then, that the Germans were okay when they accepted Nazi views about antisemitism? After all, it doesn't "affect them", and their "behavior can be whatever they want." It's for freedom and liberty that Nazis can have whatever ideas that they want, and they should not restrict nor regulate such speech and ideas.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Economist

Oh, so now non-economics professors as indoctrinating their students? These economics professors must be angels, then, compared to the rest of academia. Thanks for another implicit ungrounded accusation.
I don't have time to respond to everything, but I just wanted to respond to this because I don't want anyone believing this misrepresentation of me above.

All I was claiming is that some fields, are more oriented on teaching tools, such as accounting, economics, engineering, nursing, etc. Other fields are more likely to focus on specific people and specific ideas, which may lead to a little bit different views. I'm just saying that in certain fields you're less likely to have a professors political ideas be as expressed and out in the open.
 

opus

All I was claiming is that some fields, are more oriented on teaching tools, such as accounting, economics, engineering, nursing, etc. Other fields are more likely to focus on specific people and specific ideas, which may lead to a little bit different views. I'm just saying that in certain fields you're less likely to have a professors political ideas be as expressed and out in the open.
Accounting, engineering, nursing, yes.

Economics, no. And as far as I'm concerned, neither is any other social science and humanities. Accounting deals with numbers, engineering deals with design, nursing with health.. but social sciences deal with people, so no matter how well you dress it up in numbers, there is a clear representation of specific school(s) of thought.
 

Economist

but social sciences deal with people, so no matter how well you dress it up in numbers, there is a clear representation of specific school(s) of thought.
I don't completely disagree that even in Econ you have different schools of thought. However, this is mostly in Macro were there is still a lot more debate over things, as opposed to Micro which there is more consensus. However, these "specific schools of thought" are not usually that linked to political ideology, but rather consist of different models, methods, etc. For example, the subfield of Econometrics has no real ideology tied to it, but the subfield Austrian Economics is much more linked to a certain ideology (namely pro-market).

Maybe the best way to understand people, is through mathematics and statistics? If this is the case, then maybe social science can advance by becoming more technical and mathematical.

My original claim (which I am still sticking with) is that Economics teaches more tools than most people realize. In my Psychology classes (which is the only other Social Science I've taken many classes in) it was much more about discussing research, and saying "concept/theory/hypothesis XXX says that people will act in XXX way, and shows support through experiment XXX." In Economics classes past intro Micro/Macro you usually spend much more time discussing and learning models and tools of analysis. I know of an Nobel Prize winning Economist who said, "I was a Physics major, and when I took my first Econ class, I thought, this looks a lot like Physics." My point is that in Economics, much time is spent learning the technical aspects of the field. I think professors think that anybody can go out on their own and learn about Economic thought/philosophy by reading, so instead they teach the tools of Economics. Besides, most professors think the tools are the most important part so that's what they stress. I was also stating that public opinion polls have shown that there is much more diversity in terms of political ideology for Economists (meaning people with graduate degrees in Econ). You'll find that a slight majority are self-described democrats, but there are also a good number of republicans, and also a good number of libertarians. I always figured this had to do with the way studying Economics changes your understanding of the world. An Economist is critiqued on his ability to do high level research, regardless of his/her political ideology, and regardless of the political implications that his/her research draws. I don't know that you would find the same thing in Sociology (where you mentioned that the Association of Sociologists or whatever took a stance on the war).
 

opus

I don't know that you would find the same thing in Sociology (where you mentioned that the Association of Sociologists or whatever took a stance on the war).
If you don't know about other social science fields, then why do you make the assumption that economics is the only one that is "value-free" like the natural sciences (which none of them are, actually)? You're arguing from ignorance, that you don't know what non-psychology and non-economics fields are like, and then you argue that economists are the only one able to do "high level research".

"Well, I don't know about other fields, but I hear economics is pretty technical, fancy-schmancy, and us economists have compared it to physics a million times"
 
Last edited by a moderator:

opus

I'm going to further go on a limb here against your claim that economics is "diverse" in terms of political ideology. Diversity in political positions does not make a discipline "diverse". This excerpt is from a working paper that I've been reading by an economic sociologist:

These general issues are compounded for sociology. It is the most heterogeneous
social science, which is perhaps another way of saying that it has been less
successful at institutionalizing itself as a discipline than its close relatives. Unlike
economics, it does not have a core kit of analytical tools and models codified in textbooks and widely accepted as legitimate both inside and outside the field.
Economics is unique amongst the social sciences in this respect. After WorldWar
II, it acquired the gate-keeping features of professions like medicine or engineering,
and also developed the imperial ambitions of fields like physics, all the while
becoming incorporated into policy-making in an unprecedented way (Fourcade-
Gourinchas ). Unlike political science, on the other hand, sociology does not
have a well-defined empirical core to unify it, either. Theoretical and methodological
disputes are common in political science, of course, but a shared focus on
the mechanisms and institutions of government has helped integrate the field. In
sociology, by comparison, social life as such is too general to serve as a basis for
unification.
This is a field whereby some its scientists don't even think it should be a field, or agree on methodological tools to investigate. Thus, sociology has the most diverse tools of inquiry, the largest scope of research, and massive in-fighting. Anthropology is almost just as "diverse", except they arguably have emphasized qualitative research. So yes, the strengths you describe of economics (as well as the paper describes) of being close to professions is not due to its "diversity" or "complexity", but rather its simplicity and "mainstream" models. That is, people are convinced economics is "real" when you can model an economic activity and make predictions. Obviously whether this is true or not is irrelevant to this discussion, but is by no means due to what you call "diversity" in the field and rather the opposite.

So likewise, your claim that economics is so superior with its technical analysis making it superior to all other social sciences holds no water. Nor does your claim that economists being diverse in political ideology makes the field "diverse" for having both Democrats and Republicans (between right-wing and more right-wing) equally.

And your suggestion that the best way to understand people through numbers and statistics is outdated. This was something that has been around since the Enlightenment with the emphasis on "rationality" and "positivism" hoping that the natural sciences would not explain just nature, but humans as well. That is, they sought a "universality" of methodology and truth-claims.

Of course, I dare say it was a complete failure because quantitative analysis alone cannot explain humans. Though, economists like yourself, may opt to disagree and instead argue that everything should become more "technical", "mathematical", and thus, "scientific".
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DrClapeyron

Everybody has their agenda, but I fail to see the evidence put forth by the PhD in the video. He talks a good rhetoric but has no solid example of indoctrination and then further fails to make the moral arguement for or against.
 

Economist

This is a field whereby some its scientists don't even think it should be a field, or agree on methodological tools to investigate. Thus, sociology has the most diverse tools of inquiry, the largest scope of research, and massive in-fighting. Anthropology is almost just as "diverse", except they arguably have emphasized qualitative research. So yes, the strengths you describe of economics (as well as the paper describes) of being close to professions is not due to its "diversity" or "complexity", but rather its simplicity and "mainstream" models.
I have heard that before, that sociology has a more diverse set of tools. However, originally we were talking about political ideology, and I was stating that in my opinion economists tend to have a more diverse array of political views. You are also forgeting that there are economists who have very different tools of inquiry, such as the Austrian School of Economics.

That is, people are convinced economics is "real" when you can model an economic activity and make predictions. Obviously whether this is true or not is irrelevant to this discussion, but is by no means due to what you call "diversity" in the field and rather the opposite.
I disagree that this is irrelevant to our discussion. Making and testing predictions is what social science is all about. Economics has great predictive power, precisely because it tries to mathematical model real world phenomenon, and precisely because economists are well trained in statistics in order to test their predictions. This is why Gary Becker, Roland Fryer Jr, etc are able to study things that was referred to as sociology in the past (discrimination, families, education, peer effects, etc) because they have very useful tools of analysis.

So likewise, your claim that economics is so superior with its technical analysis making it superior to all other social sciences holds no water. Nor does your claim that economists being diverse in political ideology makes the field "diverse" for having both Democrats and Republicans (between right-wing and more right-wing) equally.
I'm not saying it's superior because of technical analysis. I do believe that social sciences will have to adapt in the future and become increasingly mathematical and statistical in order to rigourously and accurately test hyptheses and measure effects. Social sciences have to take advantage of both the philosophical ideas and views, as well as the mathematical and statistical tools.

You also make it sound as though sociologists are completely unique from one another in their world view (which is not even what I've been claiming about economists). Don't you think if you ask a sociologist about the role discrimination and racism plays for minorities in the US, you'll get a fairly similar answer?

And your suggestion that the best way to understand people through numbers and statistics is outdated. This was something that has been around since the Enlightenment with the emphasis on "rationality" and "positivism" hoping that the natural sciences would not explain just nature, but humans as well. That is, they sought a "universality" of methodology and truth-claims.
I didn't say it's the best way, rather that it is part of what it takes to have a social science and understand people. Essentially, I believe that quantitative analysis is necessary but not sufficient for a social science.

Of course, I dare say it was a complete failure because quantitative analysis alone cannot explain humans. Though, economists like yourself, may opt to disagree and instead argue that everything should become more "technical", "mathematical", and thus, "scientific".
Exactly! Quantitative analysis cannot completely explain humans, however you may not be able to understand humans without it. As I alluded to above, it may be necessary but not sufficient. If humans could be totally understood through quantitative analysis alone, you probably wouldn't need social scientists because mathematicians would do it instead. Luckily for me, this is not the case, as I've stressed before that social science is about both philosophical ideas/theories and quantitative testing/analysis (as much as possible) of these ideas.

If you don't know about other social science fields, then why do you make the assumption that economics is the only one that is "value-free" like the natural sciences (which none of them are, actually)? You're arguing from ignorance, that you don't know what non-psychology and non-economics fields are like, and then you argue that economists are the only one able to do "high level research".
I never said econ was value-free. And just for your info, I have taken a sociology class. I am by no means an expert, but I may not be as ignorant as you seem to think. I wish I would have taken more, just to understand their perspective more, but it's all good because I will just pick up sociology textbooks in the future.
 

opus

I have heard that before, that sociology has a more diverse set of tools. However, originally we were talking about political ideology, and I was stating that in my opinion economists tend to have a more diverse array of political views. You are also forgeting that there are economists who have very different tools of inquiry, such as the Austrian School of Economics.
"Praxaeology" is not empirical, and it is quite laughable that you are regarding this as a "tool of inquiry". As far as I'm concerned, not even their studies of "human action" would get published in the orthodox economic journals.

Also, political views != tools of inquiry, and if you're putting high value on the diversity of inquiry tools, I suggest you research other academic disciplines before putting your money on economics.
I disagree that this is irrelevant to our discussion. Making and testing predictions is what social science is all about. Economics has great predictive power, precisely because it tries to mathematical model real world phenomenon, and precisely because economists are well trained in statistics in order to test their predictions. This is why Gary Becker, Roland Fryer Jr, etc are able to study things that was referred to as sociology in the past (discrimination, families, education, peer effects, etc) because they have very useful tools of analysis.
Yes, quantitative data analysis is indeed useful but it is by no means exclusive property of the economics paradigm. Economists that study non-traditional subjects, and topics often related to sociology, are more likely than not employing statistical analysis that sociologists conventionally use commonly. For example, Freakonomics.
I'm not saying it's superior because of technical analysis. I do believe that social sciences will have to adapt in the future and become increasingly mathematical and statistical in order to rigourously and accurately test hyptheses and measure effects. Social sciences have to take advantage of both the philosophical ideas and views, as well as the mathematical and statistical tools.
Yes, but mathematical and statistical work done without knowledge of its philosophical assumptions ("axioms", if you would) is poor data and poor analysis. This is not the natural sciences, you cannot "skip" philosophy and somehow come up with "objective" facts that are forever real. Humans are complicated, and technical analysis will help, but it will not make philosophy irrelevant. In fact, it would only make it more relevant.
You also make it sound as though sociologists are completely unique from one another in their world view (which is not even what I've been claiming about economists). Don't you think if you ask a sociologist about the role discrimination and racism plays for minorities in the US, you'll get a fairly similar answer?
Sociologists are unique in that their studies are very broad, if you do not take into consideration their general "left-wing" orientation.

If sociologists could come up with a similar answer, we wouldn't have this issue of sociology questioning itself and sociologists would actually be able to agree on something for once. Of course, that has not happened and I don't see it happening for a while. Sociology is far from economics being centralized with a core set of tools, ideology, and beliefs. It is much more ambiguous and more inquisitive than deductive.
I didn't say it's the best way, rather that it is part of what it takes to have a social science and understand people. Essentially, I believe that quantitative analysis is necessary but not sufficient for a social science.
Yes, I agree with you. Quantitative analysis has a very important place in research. However, by itself alone, it is useless, like all other levels of analysis.
Exactly! Quantitative analysis cannot completely explain humans, however you may not be able to understand humans without it. As I alluded to above, it may be necessary but not sufficient. If humans could be totally understood through quantitative analysis alone, you probably wouldn't need social scientists because mathematicians would do it instead. Luckily for me, this is not the case, as I've stressed before that social science is about both philosophical ideas/theories and quantitative testing/analysis (as much as possible) of these ideas.
Indeed, however, as a general rule qualitative research is much more effective at "breaking into" a field. Quantitative data is much more effective at precision and predictability. In terms of data gathering, qualitative research also plays an important role in recording things that quantitative data misses - and variables that quantitative research often unknowingly miss.
I never said econ was value-free. And just for your info, I have taken a sociology class. I am by no means an expert, but I may not be as ignorant as you seem to think. I wish I would have taken more, just to understand their perspective more, but it's all good because I will just pick up sociology textbooks in the future.
That's good, here are some textbooks that might peak your interest:
Wikinomics
The Starfish and the Spider
The Tipping Point
 

Economist

"Praxaeology" is not empirical, and it is quite laughable that you are regarding this as a "tool of inquiry". As far as I'm concerned, not even their studies of "human action" would get published in the orthodox economic journals.
Don't quote me on this, but I think that modern Austrian economists are actually a bit different. I think a lot of them are highly trained in mathematics (economic theory) and statistics/empirical work (econometrics) because they have to take the 1st year core theory classes with everyone else in their PhD program, and they have to pass the prelim exams like everyone else. I was listening to a podcast about Austrian economics with a modern Austrian (Pete Boettke) and he was making it sound like modern Austrians utilize their knowledge of Econometrics in their research. However, I do agree that Austrian economists are probably unlikely to publish in many of the top/mainstream economic journals.

Yes, quantitative data analysis is indeed useful but it is by no means exclusive property of the economics paradigm. Economists that study non-traditional subjects, and topics often related to sociology, are more likely than not employing statistical analysis that sociologists conventionally use commonly. For example, Freakonomics.
Yes, quantitative analysis is not in anyway the be all end all of economics. If it were, economists probably wouldn't have a job, as statisticians could do everything that we can do. The main two things one needs to know to be an economist is the theory as well has how to do empirical work.

I'm not sure I agree with the Freakonomics comment though. Freakonomics is a based on numerous papers that Levitt wrote which were published in mainstream economics journals, and they all depend heavily on econometrics (data analysis, statistics, etc).

Yes, but mathematical and statistical work done without knowledge of its philosophical assumptions ("axioms", if you would) is poor data and poor analysis. This is not the natural sciences, you cannot "skip" philosophy and somehow come up with "objective" facts that are forever real. Humans are complicated, and technical analysis will help, but it will not make philosophy irrelevant. In fact, it would only make it more relevant.
I totally agree. You haven't really made a profound point though because all (or at least most) economists seem to know this. I may not be that informed about it, but that's because I am still just an undergrad. I'm even taking an econ course this quarter which discussed these things heavily in the first chapter.

Believe me, economists seem to know the limitations of their mathematical and empirical work (which partly results from the "axioms" you mentioned above). Essentially, economists use mathematics in order to derive refutable propositions, then statistics is used to test those refutable propositions. But their is always much debate between economists about because of their awareness of the limitations you alluded to above.

Yes, I agree with you. Quantitative analysis has a very important place in research. However, by itself alone, it is useless, like all other levels of analysis.
Yes, stats alone will get you nowhere (which is why theory is so important). And yes, in science you need many different types of analysis because each one independently is insufficient. It seems to me though, that out of all the social sciences, economics stresses knowledge of statistics the most, but maybe you disagree.
 

opus

While yes, we finally agree on something, you still have a strong perceivable bias because you're again giving economists the benefit of the doubt (par usual). If this was the case, there would be little criticism against orthodox (or "autistic") economics as a whole. This of course, is not true, and even I would never give trust to fellow sociologists as you would to fellow economists by default.
 
1,040
4
All I can say is that, if all ideas are equally good, I want phlogiston put back in thermodynamics.
 
I think the nature of a true academic is to question but given some funding is amid at "proving a pree conceived bias" then it is inevitable that universities will attract some people that are more interested in advocacy then academics.

For instance in Canada the government use to give money to an advocacy group called the status of woman which would then in turn give the money to fund university research on "womans issues". The best way to reduce the bias in research is to give the money to universities directly with no strings attached.

When governments funnel money to universities through advocacy groups they are clearly trying in some respect to subvert academic freedom.
 
On another note if a department in a university is full of to much political B.S. then why not switch departments or universities?
 
I listened to about 20 min of it, and that was enough. His examples are from private universities, not public ones. I'm sure he could go to the private, religious-based universities and find examples where the conservative view prevails over the liberal one. His bias is evident. I've worked entirely at public universities and have never seen any such examples of bias as he's describing, and likely, they're isolated incidents at the universities he's naming as well. In fact, he complains about his own department, yes strangely enough, he's a full professor who got through the tenure process and is allowed to teach his course every year...and when his students ask why they have never heard of those other authors before, why isn't his answer that it's because they learn about them in HIS course? The very fact that he teaches his course, and exposes the students to an alternative view, and that course counts toward their major, indicates that there is NOT a bias preventing the teaching of those subjects there. Academic freedom also means that he doesn't get to tell his colleagues what they should be teaching or studying either.

So! You are a Marxist professor. I despise thee. :mad:
 
Kors is full of himself. His diatribe, a verbal polemic filled with unsubstantiated claims and invective, begins with a poor joke, and goes downhill from there. His claim, "American leftists seek to control the whole of student life," is ludicrous. :rofl: I'm sure Kors is speaking to a sympathetic audience, who shares his delusions.

My experience has been that no faculty member has ever tried to influence my thoughts or understanding, nor those of any other classmate. The student bodies of which I've been a part, and which I encounter since then and today, reflect a spectrum of ideas, perspectives, beliefs, indeed as varied as one finds at PF. The faculties of the institutions I attended also exhibited a broad spectrum of beliefs, ideas, understanding, and perspective.

Cherry picking his evidence does not support the broad generalization of Kors's claims. :rolleyes:

Kors is not persuasive. I guess I failed Kors's indoctrination. :rofl:
Another one! :mad:
 

Related Threads for: To Anyone Who Thinks Universities Don't Indoctrinate

  • Last Post
2
Replies
42
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • Last Post
2
Replies
48
Views
6K
  • Last Post
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Last Post
2
Replies
28
Views
5K
Replies
14
Views
3K

Hot Threads

Top