Torque-Free Precession in Classical & Quantum Mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of torque-free precession in both classical and quantum mechanics. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of precession in classical mechanics and seek to understand how this phenomenon can be described within a quantum mechanical framework. The scope includes theoretical considerations and the application of Hamiltonian mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the classical mechanics of precession for an asymmetric rotating object, presenting equations that govern the motion.
  • The same participant questions whether this classical motion can be expressed quantum mechanically and proposes a Hamiltonian formulation involving the inertia tensor.
  • Another participant introduces the context of rigid molecules with electric dipole moments in electromagnetic fields but acknowledges that this does not pertain to the original question of torque-free precession.
  • A clarification is made that diatomic molecules do not experience free precession, contrasting with the participant's interest in the precession experienced by free-spinning molecules like white phosphorus.
  • A suggestion is made for a Hamiltonian that incorporates the angular momentum operator and the inverse of the inertia tensor, indicating that this formulation may lead to precession due to non-commutation with the Hamiltonian.
  • A participant expresses gratitude for the suggestion and indicates a willingness to explore it further.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of precession in quantum mechanics, with some focusing on classical examples and others emphasizing the need for a quantum treatment. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to describe torque-free precession in quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the systems being considered, particularly the distinction between free precession and precession influenced by external torques. The dependence on specific definitions of precession and the treatment of angular momentum in quantum mechanics are also noted but not resolved.

espen180
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In classical mechanics, an asymmetric rotating object will generally precess. Expressed in the body-fixed normal system of the object, we have [itex]I_i \dot{\omega_i}=(\vec{L}\times \vec{\omega})_i[/itex] where [itex]L_i=I_i\omega_i[/itex].

Choosing a simple example where [itex]I_1=I_2[/itex], we obtain [itex]\dot{\omega_3}=0[/itex] and, for [itex]\Omega=\frac{I_1-I_3}{I_1}\omega_3[/itex],
[itex]\dot{\omega_1}=\Omega \omega_2[/itex]
[itex]\dot{\omega_2}=-\Omega \omega_1[/itex]
describing the precession. Thus, [itex]\vec{\omega}(t)=(A\cos(\Omega t) , A\sin(\Omega t), \omega_3)[/itex].

My question is; can this motion be described quantum mechanically?

My first guess was to write the Hamiltionian as [itex]\hat{H}=\frac12 \hat{\vec{\omega}}I\hat{\vec{\omega}}[/itex] with [itex]I[/itex] being the inertia tensor. The difficulty is then to describe [itex]\hat{\vec{\omega}}[/itex] in terms of [itex]\hat{x},\hat{p_x}[/itex] etc.

Am I going about this the wrong way?
Is there any treatment of this problem available? I tried searching, but all the treatments of precession I found were related to magnetic moment precession.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
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That would still be concidered precession by an external torque, which is not what I am interested in here. Diatomic molecules don't experience free precession. I am sorry if I worded the problem poorly.

What I am interested in is the kind of precession the rotational axis of the Earth experiences, but at the quantum level. For example, a free spinning molecule of white phosphorus (tetrahedral molecule) would experience precession.
 
I see what you mean.

Try the following Hamiltonian:

[itex]\hat{H} = \frac{1}{2} \sum\limits_{ij} \hat{L}_i I^{-1}_{ij} \hat{L}_j[/itex]

where [itex]I^{-1}_{ij}[/itex] is the invserse of the inertia tensor. In the normal system [itex]I^{-1}_{ij} = \delta_{ij} \frac{1}{I_i}[/itex]

The angular momentum operator L is well defined, and the moment of inertia can be taken as constant.

If I am not mistaken, then L does not commute with the Hamiltonian, so that you get precession.
 
Great! I'll try it.
Thank you very much! :smile:
 

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