Toyota Recall: Is Your Vehicle Affected?

[Cyrus]

Turning the key off turns off power steering and greatly reduces breaking power which will result in a crash.

The cars don't have any brakes when they fail. If anything, cycling the power may fix the problem. Even if it doesn't, I'd rather hit something while slowing down than speeding up.

 

[MotoH]

The cars don't have any brakes when they fail. If anything, cycling the power may fix the problem. Even if it doesn't, I'd rather hit something while slowing down than speeding up.

I did not realize you were referring to the unfortunate accident involving the lexus. In that case the best bet would have been to switch the gear into neutral, throw the flashers on and try to slow down safely which could mean rubbing out on a jersey barrier. But in the Toyota case, turning off the car will reduce 2 essential tools in solving the problem.

 

[Cyrus]

I did not realize you were referring to the unfortunate accident involving the lexus. In that case the best bet would have been to switch the gear into neutral, throw the flashers on and try to slow down safely which could mean rubbing out on a jersey barrier. But in the Toyota case, turning off the car will reduce 2 essential tools in solving the problem.

If an off duty cop didn't think to do it, I seriously, seriously doubt 99% of the people on the road would.

 

[MotoH]

If an off duty cop didn't think to do it, I seriously, seriously doubt 99% of the people on the road would.

But now that the procedure is known, there should be no excuse that a person should fail to execute this move.

 

[EnumaElish]

If the gas pedal got stuck on a manual, wouldn't shifting down to the first gear take care of it in most situations? I drive a clutchless manual jetta, and my first reaction to "too fast" is to shift down.

OTOH, I don't know what would happen if the gas pedal got stuck on an automatic and the driver put the gear into "Park."

 

[Cyrus]

But now that the procedure is known, there should be no excuse that a person should fail to execute this move.

You hear that old lady driving the car when the gas gets stuck, no excuse grandma!

 

[EnumaElish]

How to stop without brakes: http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-a-Car-with-No-Brakes

 

[rhody]

Morning always helps me think clearer with a fresh perspective, the thought occurred to me this morning that:

a: Would we be dealing with this massive Toyota recall with a republican (business friendly) administration in place ?
b: Since the answer to a. is unknown, we must rely on the evidence at hand, it wasn't until people in govt decided that Toyota had waited too long (IMHO a fact) that led to the massive recall.
c. Would a more "conservative" and less business friendly administration (Dem or Rep) have taken the same action ?

Leads me to wonder...

Rhody...

 

[xxChrisxx]

But now that the procedure is known, there should be no excuse that a person should fail to execute this move.

Don't talk utter crap.

Do you drive? More specifically have you ever been involved in brake failure/throttle jamming open at higher speeds?

I've had both happen to me (at different times thankfully). The fact is you saying there is 'no excuse' on a message board sat in a warm comfy house is MUCH different from being sat in a drivers seat doing it. Not having brakes at 60mph is just about the **** scariest thing that has happened to me (sudden master cylinder failure). I can tell you it's not easy to fight off panic in those situations.

Having both brake failure and throttle jam open (so you are constantly accelerating and at higher speeds than I was at) would probably break me, I would like to thing of myself as calm and collected in everything I do. Panic makes you forget even the most basic instructions, as Cyrus said even a seasoned police officer (who you think would remain calm long before us mere mortals) couldn't do it.

Your 'experience' of not having panicking and having the knowledge to restart a stalled engine after the car comes to a stop is not even remotely the same game as having critical brake failure at high speed.

EDIT: Also you are 16, and live in Minnesota iirc from one of the other threads. That just about driving age and if I read it correctly, you can't even obtain a full licence.

Also it appears people have got there first.

 

[MotoH]

EDIT: Also you are 16, and live in Minnesota iirc from one of the other threads. That just about driving age and if I read it correctly, you can't even obtain a full licence.

Also it appears people have got there first.

Oh man, oh man. I honestly don't even know where to begin! I didn't even want to quote your post from sheer and utter stupidity. Well let's start here, maybe you shouldn't have bought a shyte car to begin with. I hear bicycles don't have those problems. A full license? What, so because I am too young to take the CDL test I don't have a full license? Please, the simplest google search would have told you that. Did you by chance post out of pure fury and anger? It happens some times and I forgive you for being ignorant.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Oh man, oh man. I honestly don't even know where to begin! I didn't even want to quote your post from sheer and utter stupidity. Well let's start here, maybe you shouldn't have bought a shyte car to begin with. I hear bicycles don't have those problems. A full license? What, so because I am too young to take the CDL test I don't have a full license? Please, the simplest google search would have told you that. Did you by chance post out of pure fury and anger? It happens some times and I forgive you for being ignorant.

Mechanical problems occur with all cars, and of all classes. As shown, even brand spanking new luxury range cars go wrong. I happen to like old/classic cars. Which is why I have learned to deal with problems such as this.

What angers me about every single post you have made so far, is that you are a child who is commenting on something that you clearly have no experience with what so ever. You are berating the other drivers for the way they acted, yet you simply do not know the feelign of losing all braking. It is incredibly hard to keep a cool head in those situations, because it's a sudden thing. If you know you'r brakes are going to go, you can deal with it easily. Losing them suddenly when you need them, the first reaction of 99% of people is to panic.

I have experienced this, and I have had the "oh ****, there's a pretty good chance I can die here" moment, that you clearly never have, and hope you never do.

How long have you been driving anyway?

Edit: Also please don't bypass the profanity filter, it's there for a reason.

 

[Proton Soup]

what is this thing, a Wii controller? I'm going to start referring to Toyotas as Mario Carts.

http://www.am1150.ca/files/feeds/2_1_5377242_b020127A.jpg

 

[russ_watters]

Reel it in, MotoH. Immediately.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

More problems for Toyota

Toyota Prius Brake Problems – In another serious blow to Toyota, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Thursday morning that is opening a formal defect investigation of the 2010 Toyota Prius, examining allegations that the hybrid vehicle momentarily loses braking when it goes over uneven roads or hits potholes...

http://www.showbizgalore.com/4535/prius-brake-recall-toyota-prius-recall-update-toyota-prius-brake-problems/

Also

Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak says his Toyota Prius accelerates on its own...

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-wozniak3-2010feb03,0,3057333.story

He says that a slight bump to the cruise control accelerator [not the foot pedal] can cause the car to accelerate to over 100 mph.

This all drives home what I was saying earlier: Toyotas just keep going and going.

 

[xxChrisxx]

what is this thing, a Wii controller? I'm going to start referring to Toyotas as Mario Carts.

image

It's an auto, so it kind of is more like Mario's Kart than a proper car

The go pedal is my fave!

 

[MotoH]

The Prius has been a bunk car since it was made, doesn't surprise me that there is another problem with them.

 

[russ_watters]

More problems for Toyota


http://www.showbizgalore.com/4535/prius-brake-recall-toyota-prius-recall-update-toyota-prius-brake-problems/

Not too surprising with the Prius. The - shall we say - "avionics" required to run a hybrid are far more complicated than those required for a normal car. I've wondered before about the logic required to balance the needs/capabilities of regenerative brakes and conventional brakes, while mixing in anti-lock and differential braking features.

What I saw of the description sounds a lot like a problem I've thought about before: when you are braking and the situation rapidly changes (such as when hitting a pothole, as the article says), the comptuter has to weigh a lot of variables to figure out what to do. Perhaps it gets confused when light braking suddenly turns into a skid? With conventional anti-lock brakes, hitting a pothold probably feels like a momentary skid, which causes the brakes to back off and re-apply in the normal anti-lock pulsing pattern - but perhaps only pulsing onece.

 

[Borg]

My 2006 Prius has a similar problem with the brakes. I've learned to be careful when braking around potholes or very bumpy roads. It's electronics will also completely shut down the drivetrain if the wheels slip during initial acceleration. This means it can be very difficult to get moving in any real depth of snow. You can't just spin your wheels to get unstuck. I see the "avionics" as being a work in progress but, at least Toyota has been working on building the type of car that can get the type of high mileage that the Prius achieves (I'm purposely avoiding a long-winded rant against GM and Ford here).

Even with the problems, I wouldn't get rid of my Prius for anything. They are far roomier inside than you would think and I love getting 50 MPG.

 

[EnumaElish]

So currently Prius is the Airbus of automobiles?

 

[edward]

It looks like cars may getting too many high tech devices to be practical, at least for me.

Last night my son dropped by with a new Acura ZDX to show me the tech package. (mostly voice recognition) Honestly I don't really have a need to talk to my climate control system.

The vehicle did handle great but I really hate to surrender my driving skills to a bunch of electronic sensors.

 

[xxChrisxx]

The vehicle did handle great but I really hate to surrender my driving skills to a bunch of electronic sensors.

It's the way it's going, give it a few years and everything will be fly by wire. It's another reason why I love modern/future classics, lots of electronics ruins the driving experience for me.

 

[Borg]

I love my 2009 Subaru Forester. It doesn't get 50 mpg, but it's wonderful in ice and snow with AWD, traction control, and anti-lock brakes. It can hold a lot of people and a lot of cargo, too. It sure doesn't hurt to get ~27 mpg in an SUV when the other features (traction, road-worthiness in bad weather) are factored in. If my wife and I lived in Florida or Arizona, we'd probably be running Hondas or Toyotas, but in Maine, Subarus rule.

Yes, a Prius isn't the right car for places that get a lot of snow. There won't be any on the roads in DC this weekend either - we're scheduled to get 20 - 30 inches of snow by tomorrow night!

 

[turbo]

Yes, a Prius isn't the right car for places that get a lot of snow. There won't be any on the roads in DC this weekend either - we're scheduled to get 20 - 30 inches of snow by tomorrow night!

I heard that tonight and I am profoundly sorry for you and other denizens of that region. When I was working for General Physics and had to be at company headquarters (Columbia, MD) for a project, it snowed about 1-2" overnight. When I went to work, the place was deserted. I asked the department's head secretary where everybody was, and she said "snowed in". I grew up in Maine and she grew up in Buffalo, so after my lack of comprehension, we both had a good laugh. It was a laid-back day at work and we both got a LOT done.

 

[Borg]

I heard that tonight and I am profoundly sorry for you and other denizens of that region. When I was working for General Physics and had to be at company headquarters (Columbia, MD) for a project, it snowed about 1-2" overnight. When I went to work, the place was deserted. I asked the department's head secretary where everybody was, and she said "snowed in". I grew up in Maine and she grew up in Buffalo, so after my lack of comprehension, we both had a good laugh. It was a laid-back day at work and we both got a LOT done.

Thanks, Turbo-1. The local governments are telling people to be prepared to "shelter in place" for up to three days. I skipped the gym today because I know I'll get a good couple of workouts this weekend anyway.

I went to college in the upper peninsula of Michigan so I know the feeling you had about people saying they were "snowed in" over that amount of snow. I drove a Firebird for three of those winters - including the one where we had 25 feet before Christmas. I'm still not sure if I would drive a Prius there. If the drivetrain wouldn't shut down when the wheels spin, I wouldn't worry about it. I understand that they're trying to keep the electric motors from overrevving but, I do hope that they eventually fix that part of their software.

 

[turbo]

Thanks, Turbo-1. The local governments are telling people to be prepared to "shelter in place" for up to three days. I skipped the gym today because I know I'll get a good couple of workouts this weekend anyway.

I went to college in the upper peninsula of Michigan so I know the feeling you had about people saying they were "snowed in" over that amount of snow. I drove a Firebird for three of those winters - including the one where we had 25 feet before Christmas. I'm still not sure if I would drive a Prius there. If the drivetrain wouldn't shut down when the wheels spin, I wouldn't worry about it. I understand that they're trying to keep the electric motors from overrevving but, I do hope that they eventually fix that part of their software.

I don't know if it is a lack of personal preparedness or a lack of public preparedness, but things sure seem to go to hell in a handbasket if it snows below the Mason-Dixon line. One time, I showed up for work at a pulp mill in south Georgia (Cedar Springs) and things were in an uproar. It seems that they got a dusting of snow overnight (Rare!) and the shift-changes were disrupted because people panicked. When I drove in at 7am there was no hint of snow anywhere, and I bought peaches at an orchard between Dothan and Cedar Springs. Duh!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Since I helped to derail my own thread, the off-topic posts, less the weather discussion, were moved to the General Car Thread.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=375745

 

[edward]

WILD RIDE

In post 50 I described my son bringing over an Acura ZDX for me to test drive.

Today he took (another) older gentleman out for a test drive with the ZDX The man wanted to check out the acceleration. My son took him to a favorite stretch of open road.

The man floored it and...THE ACCERATOR STUCK... 40-50-60-70 went flying by on the speedometer. The man could not get the brakes to stop the vehicle, most probably because he pumped the pedal several times and lost vacuum boost.

Just before my son put it into neutral and killed the engine ignition he reached down on a hunch and yanked back on the floor mat. The vehicle immediately slowed down. The man had turned white.

The vehicle was equipped with optional all season heavy floor mats. My son immediately called the Acura regional office. Guess what? They just blew it off they didn't want to hear it.

Needless to say the guy didn't buy the $66,000 car. Ironically 2 bucks worth of velcro would hold those mats down.

 

[Evo]

WILD RIDE

In post 50 I described my son bringing over an Acura ZDX for me to test drive.

Today he took (another) older gentleman out for a test drive with the ZDX The man wanted to check out the acceleration. My son took him to a favorite stretch of open road.

The man floored it and...THE ACCERATOR STUCK... 40-50-60-70 went flying by on the speedometer. The man could not get the brakes to stop the vehicle, most probably because he pumped the pedal several times and lost vacuum boost.

Just before my son put it into neutral and killed the engine ignition he reached down on a hunch and yanked back on the floor mat. The vehicle immediately slowed down. The man had turned white.

The vehicle was equipped with optional all season heavy floor mats. My son immediately called the Acura regional office. Guess what? They just blew it off they didn't want to hear it.

Needless to say the guy didn't buy the $66,000 car. Ironically 2 bucks worth of velcro would hold those mats down.

Same reason I used to kick off my high heeled shoes when driving. The high heeled pump can get lodged between the floor and the pedal. After a couple of times having to remove my foot and kicking the shoe loose, I just started taking them off.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Did anyone see the testimony today? The story the one woman tells gets to the heart of the confusion for me. She claims to have gone through all of the gears, including reverse.

Is the shifting in the Lexus all electronic?

Turns out my cousin [a cop] knew the CHP officer who was driving the runaway that made all the news - where everyone was killed. My first question was: Why didn't he put it into neutral? Apparently no one knows... or did he try? One Congressman claimed today that in that case, the gas pedal was found "welded to the floor mat", allegedly eliminating electronic failures as the cause of the incident. How could a cop not know to put the car into neutral, or even park if needed?

Even if the shifting is all electronic, what are the chances of multiple simultaneous failures - a floor mat and the shifting, for example? This just doesn't make sense. It is also hard to imagine how the woman today could have simultaneous throttle and shift failures. Surely they wouldn't use one computer for all functions with no failsafes?

Perhaps the software locks out shift control while moving or accelerating?

 

[Proton Soup]

there is a lot of strangeness, for sure. the lack of braking as a recurring theme is strange. the only thing that makes sense to me there is that when the engine is stuck at wide open throttle, there will be no vacuum, and hence no vacuum assist. but... unless there is something overriding normal braking function, you should still be able to use the brakes, they will just require a lot more force. maybe something related to the ABS system is not allowing the brakes to engage.