Toyota Recall: Is Your Vehicle Affected?

[Ivan Seeking]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRexOM1ysK8&NR

 

[joelupchurch]

it certainly shows that they were thinking about that condition when they designed the control system.

As far as I know all cars can be stopped by the brakes even when accelerator is floored. I can believe that the accelerator gets stuck, but I find it less credible that the car couldn't be stopped by using the brake pedals.

Older readers might recall that similar things were alleged about the Audi 5000 and it turned out that the root cause was that the brake and accelerator pedals were unusually close together and people who weren't used to driving it could press the accelerator by mistake. In some cases the accelerator was pressed so hard that it bent under the force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_100#Reported_sudden_unintended_acceleration"

 

[Ivan Seeking]

One thing that caught my attention with the alleged runaway two days ago was the claim that the pedal "pulled away from his foot". On a fly-by-wire system, that should be impossible. That might explain why he couldn't put it into neutral: He didn't want to! Turns out, according to the latest report that I've heard, he will gladly drive a Prius, but he wants a new one. Hmmmmmmm.

The gas pedal on older cars can do that due to the cruise control and the integrated mechanical linkage, but there should be nothing in an electronic system that could account for this.

 

[turbo]

Anybody here play WebSudoku? It appears that Toyota has bought every single ad (the kind that pops up when a game is over), citing Toyota owners who rave about how safe Toyotas are and how responsive the company is.

 

[Dembadon]

As far as I know all cars can be stopped by the brakes even when accelerator is floored. I can believe that the accelerator gets stuck, but I find it less credible that the car couldn't be stopped by using the brake pedals.

Older readers might recall that similar things were alleged about the Audi 5000 and it turned out that the root cause was that the brake and accelerator pedals were unusually close together and people who weren't used to driving it could press the accelerator by mistake. In some cases the accelerator was pressed so hard that it bent under the force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_100#Reported_sudden_unintended_acceleration"

Check out the video in the following quote (taken from post #6 in this thread).

...
Consumer Reports video.

 

[edward]

As far as I know all cars can be stopped by the brakes even when accelerator is floored. I can believe that the accelerator gets stuck, but I find it less credible that the car couldn't be stopped by using the brake pedals.

That is true under most circumstances. At high speeds though the brakes get hot and fade really quick. The newer cars with six speed automatic transmissions and lots of HP will start to shift down to the lower gears when the engine is under load requiring even more pressure on the brake pedal.

I have gut feeling that people are pumping the brakes. At wide open throttle there is very little vacuum assist left. There is also the possibility that pumping the brakes makes the anti lock brake system lose effectiveness.

Older readers might recall that similar things were alleged about the Audi 5000 and it turned out that the root cause was that the brake and accelerator pedals were unusually close together and people who weren't used to driving it could press the accelerator by mistake. In some cases the accelerator was pressed so hard that it bent under the force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_100#Reported_sudden_unintended_acceleration"

Yep the Audi had a bad case of mislocated pedal syndrome. Basically it was ergonomics plus inexperienced drivers.

Most newer vehicles also have adjustable pedals. I test drove a Chrysler mini van that had the brake and the accelerator pedals at the exact same height. At one point my foot was on both.

Too make matters worse most pedals are now up under the dash so far that they can't be seen unless the driver is a contortionist.

 

[Proton Soup]

Anybody here play WebSudoku? It appears that Toyota has bought every single ad (the kind that pops up when a game is over), citing Toyota owners who rave about how safe Toyotas are and how responsive the company is.

i have adblockplus, I ZEE NOTHZING!

 

[edward]

One thing that caught my attention with the alleged runaway two days ago was the claim that the pedal "pulled away from his foot". On a fly-by-wire system, that should be impossible. That might explain why he couldn't put it into neutral: He didn't want to! Turns out, according to the latest report that I've heard, he will gladly drive a Prius, but he wants a new one. Hmmmmmmm.

The gas pedal on older cars can do that due to the cruise control and the integrated mechanical linkage, but there should be nothing in an electronic system that could account for this.

The Prius doesn't use a vacuum boost so the vehicle should have stopped on brakes alone.

I still think that they should look into the effect on braking if the pedal is pumped. With the Prius the only thing that could be affected by pumping the pedal is the anti lock system.

 

[Borg]

i have adblockplus, I ZEE NOTHZING!

I have a modified hosts file. I don't see them either.

 

[OmCheeto]

I was checking my Ford stocks this morning and ran across an interesting blip on Marketwatch:

"[URL
Rampaging Toyotas obscure highway safety strides[/URL]

From 2000 to the end of January 2010, the Transportation Department received 2,600 complaints of sudden acceleration from Toyota drivers.

...

By comparison, Ford Motor Co. has drawn almost 1,000 more complaints for the same problem over the same period, and General Motor Co. has triggered 2,250 complaints from drivers alleging unwanted acceleration.

Of course, this is not lost on Wall Street:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/toyota-bruised-brand-a-stock-bargain-2010-03-10"
Solaris fund manager snaps up shares on hopes of turnaround

Not that I'm promoting anything here. Remember:

The <Man> encourages <us> to <invest> <our> dollars with sense and
offers the following guidelines for responsible <invest>ing.

* <invest> only for fun.
* Think of the money you lose as the cost of your entertainment.
* Set a dollar limit and stick to it.
* Set a time limit and stick to it.
* Accept losing as part of the game.
* Don't borrow money to <invest>.
* Don't let <invest>ing interfere with family, friends or work.
* Don't <invest> to win back losses.
* Don't use <invest>ing as a way to cope with emotional or physical pain.
* Know the warning signs of problem <invest>ing.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Investigation of runaway Prius vehicle found a particular pattern of wear on the car's brakes that raises questions about the driver's version of the event. Investigators were also unable to make the Prius speed out of control as California man detailed.

...But the investigation of the vehicle, carried out jointly by safety officials from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Toyota engineers, didn't find signs the brakes had been applied at full force at high speeds over a sustained period of time, the three people familiar with the investigation said.

The brakes were discolored and showed wear, but the pattern of friction suggested the driver had intermittently applied moderate pressure on the brakes, these people said, adding the investigation didn't find indicators of the heavy pressure described by Sikes...

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/03/13/pattern-wear-runaway-prius-brakes-raises-questions/

 

[edward]

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/03/13/pattern-wear-runaway-prius-brakes-raises-questions/

There are some suggestions that the guy was faking it. He filed bankruptcy and still owes $20,000 on the vehicle.

The Prius will definitely stop under full acceleration. The Prius brakes do not use vacuum boost.



Getting the brakes to smoke is easy, just ride the brake pedal for a few minutes.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Toyota is having a news conference right now. "Significant inconsistencies" are found to exist between the man's story, and the details of the investigation. CNN cited a Congressional memo stating that the man's claims do not appear to be feasible.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

As I understand the crux of this, if the system failed and allowed braking while the drivetrain is powered, the motors/generator would be trying to operate in two states at once; this because the brakes use regenerative braking assist. This would result in damage to the motor/generator. Since no such damaged was detected, that condition never occurred. What isn't clear to me is if a failure of the regenerative braking assist could account for the events claimed by the driver? Is Toyota assuming that the braking assist was working, or was it physically impossible for the brakes to engage without disengaging the power drive. Apparently the braking override occurs when the force applied to the brake pedal exceeds a threshold value.

This may go back to the intial report that only moderate braking was indicated by the wear pattern on the brake linings.

 

[Brian_C]

Surprise, surprise. Old people are to blame.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/mar...en-acceleration-is-it-all-older-drivers-fault

 

[Proton Soup]

oh boy... maybe they could have overlaid something useful, like the percentage of the affected vehicle market occupied by each age group.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Lexus GX [460, 2010 model] is a 'Don't Buy' for shoppers, Consumer Reports says

April 13, 2010 | 9:20 a.m.

... The phenomenon, known as "lift-off oversteer" could occur "when a driver enters a highway's exit ramp or drives through a sweeping turn and encounters an unexpected obstacle or suddenly finds that the turn is too tight for the vehicle's speed," Consumer Reports said.

"A natural impulse is to quickly lift off the accelerator pedal. If that were to happen in the GX, the rear could slide around far enough that a wheel could strike a curb or slide off the pavement," the magazine said.

Consumer Reports contacted Toyota and was told in an e-mail response that the automaker was "mystified by the results of Consumer Reports testing on the Lexus GX 460."

After the magazine issued its do not buy warning, Toyota posted a statement on its website saying that it was "concerned with the results of Consumer Reports testing on the Lexus GX 460 and their suggested buyer recommendation."...

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lexus14-2010apr14,0,5710692.story?track=rss

 

[edpell]

Is there any conflict of interest that the organization that issues recalls now owns a car company?

 

[Office_Shredder]

Wait until the guy that issues recalls wants the job of the guy that runs the car company

 

[edward]

Is there any conflict of interest that the organization that issues recalls now owns a car company?

The government didn't issue a recall. Consumers Reports put the vehicle on their don't buy list.

The stability control system was late kicking in.

 

[Topher925]

I thought everyone knew that Lexus makes crappy cars that no one should buy? Why is this in the news now?

 

[rootX]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12400986

Shares in Toyota have jumped nearly 5% after a US inquiry into reports of unintended acceleration found no electronic flaws in the company's cars.

I always wished for Toyota welfare and hence this news makes me happy.