Tricky problem from Probability

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a probability problem involving two hunters, A and B, who shoot at ducks. A shoots at 50 ducks while B shoots at 51 ducks, and the goal is to determine the probability that B bags more ducks than A, expressed in its lowest form as p/q, and to find the value of p+q.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss various cases based on the number of ducks bagged by A and B, questioning the completeness of the problem statement and exploring different scenarios. Some participants suggest breaking down the problem into simpler cases to analyze the outcomes.

Discussion Status

The discussion has evolved with participants sharing their attempts and reasoning. Some have proposed methods for calculating probabilities based on different cases, while others have raised questions about the implications of B having an extra shot. There is an ongoing exploration of the problem without a clear consensus on the final approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the problem as they attempt to account for various cases and the implications of the number of shots each hunter has. There are also discussions about the assumptions made regarding the game setup and the potential for extending the problem to different scenarios.

  • #31
PeroK said:
This may not help. If B has two extra shots: ##n + 2## against ##n##. Let ##x## be the probability that they are equal after ##n## shots, ##y## the probability that either is one duck ahead and ##z## the probability that either is two or more ducks ahead. First we have:
$$x + 2y + 2z = 1$$
The probability that B shoots more ducks than A is:
$$ p = y + z + \frac 3 4 x + \frac 1 4 y$$
We can eliminate ##z## to get:
$$p = \frac 1 2 + \frac 1 4(x + y)$$
This is better than the way I did it previously. But, I don't know how easy it will be to calculate ##x## and ##y## in general.
yes i see it.Your method seems to be applicable for 1 duck only.But i think 2 ducks will be a difficult one and quite complicated.
 
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  • #32
PeroK said:
For the 1-3 case. We look at the probabilities of A getting ##0## and ##1## ducks:

##p(A =0) = p(A = 1) = \frac 1 2##

If A gets ##0## ducks, then B needs more than zero with 3 shots. And ##p(B > 0) = \frac 7 8##.

If A gets ##1## duck, then B needs more than one. ##p(B > 1) = p(B =2) + p(B = 3) = \frac 3 8 + \frac 1 8 = \frac 1 2##.

The probability that B outshoots A is:

##p = (\frac 1 2)(\frac 7 8) + (\frac 1 2)(\frac 1 2) = \frac{11}{16}##

In the limit, as ##n## increases this probability will reduce towards ##\frac 1 2##. E.g. if they have 1000 shots to 1002 it's not often that the extra two shots will make much difference. They only make a difference if it's equal after 1000 shots each or if A is only one duck ahead.

For a million shots, the probability will be very close to ##\frac 1 2## as it's very unlikely that the extra two shots will matter.
Ok, my method was, for case 1-3:
If A shoots 0 B shoots anything other than 000, B wins, same if A shoots 1. And this extends to any case. So I correct to 1-(1/2)^n , where n is the number of additional shots by B, since the only string that will not grant B more shots will be the 0..0 string. I had the right idea but did not implement it correctly.
 
  • #33
Physics lover said:
yes i see it.Your method seems to be applicable for 1 duck only.But i think 2 ducks will be a difficult one and quite complicated.

I couldn't resist the challenge:
$$ x = (\frac 1 2)^{2n} \frac{(2n)!}{(n!)^2}, \ \ y = (\frac 1 2)^{2n} \binom{2n}{n-1}$$
For example, with ##n = 1##, we get ##x = \frac 1 2, y = \frac 1 4## and:
$$p = \frac 1 2 + \frac 1 4(x + y) = \frac{11}{16}$$
And, for ##n = 50##, we have ##p \approx 0.54##.
 
  • #34
PeroK said:
I couldn't resist the challenge:
$$ x = (\frac 1 2)^{2n} \frac{(2n)!}{(n!)^2}, \ \ y = (\frac 1 2)^{2n} \binom{2n}{n-1}$$
For example, with ##n = 1##, we get ##x = \frac 1 2, y = \frac 1 4## and:
$$p = \frac 1 2 + \frac 1 4(x + y) = \frac{11}{16}$$
And, for ##n = 50##, we have ##p \approx 0.54##.
But this will involve lengthy calculation for large values of n.
 
  • #35
Physics lover said:
But this will involve lengthy calculation for large values of n.

That's an exact answer. You can't do better than that. You might need to use an approximation for large ##n##, but for large enough ##n## the answer is approximately ##\frac 1 2## in any case.
 

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