Triplet State Symmetric Wavefunction

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the properties of triplet and singlet states in quantum mechanics, particularly focusing on the symmetry of wavefunctions for two fermions, such as electrons. Participants explore the implications of symmetric and antisymmetric wavefunctions in relation to the overall antisymmetry requirement for fermionic systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the spin part of the triplet state is symmetric, necessitating an antisymmetric spatial wavefunction to maintain the overall antisymmetry of the two-particle wavefunction.
  • Others clarify that the singlet state is antisymmetric in spin, requiring a symmetric spatial wavefunction to achieve overall antisymmetry.
  • A participant questions the nature of symmetric and antisymmetric spatial wavefunctions, indicating that their forms depend on the Hamiltonian operator of the system.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the Hamiltonian does not depend on specific states and must be derived from the Schrödinger equation.
  • One participant notes that for non-relativistic atoms, the separation of spatial and spin wavefunctions is valid, but this may not hold for heavier atoms due to spin-orbit coupling.
  • It is mentioned that for systems with more than two electrons, forming an antisymmetrical wavefunction becomes complex, and the total wavefunction is often represented as a Slater determinant, which guarantees antisymmetry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the requirement for the overall antisymmetry of the wavefunction for fermions, but there are differing views on the implications of the Hamiltonian and the treatment of systems with more than two electrons.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations regarding the dependence of wavefunction forms on the Hamiltonian and the complexities introduced in systems with multiple electrons, which may affect the separation of spatial and spin components.

looseleaf
Messages
24
Reaction score
1
Hi everybody. I was reading about the singlet and triplet states. It makes sense that we use an antisymmetric wavefunction for the singlet state, as we are talking about two fermions. But why are we using a symmetric wavefunction for the Sz = 0 triplet state? Doesn't this go against the electrons fermion-ness?

Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Only the spin part of the triplet state is symmetric (for all three states, which are given by ##|1/2,1/2 \rangle##, ##(|1/2,-1/2 \rangle+|-1/2,1/2 \rangle)/\sqrt{2}##, and ##|-1/2,-1/2 \rangle##). The spatial part of the wave function then must of course be antisymmetric, so that the overall two-particle wave function is anti-symmetric under exchange of the two fermions. For the singlet state, which is the antisymmetric combination of the spin state, the spatial part must be symmetric.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: looseleaf
looseleaf said:
Hi everybody. I was reading about the singlet and triplet states. It makes sense that we use an antisymmetric wavefunction for the singlet state, as we are talking about two fermions. But why are we using a symmetric wavefunction for the Sz = 0 triplet state? Doesn't this go against the electrons fermion-ness?

Thanks!

The overall state of two electrons must be anti-symmetric. The triplet spin state is symmetric, so that must be combined with an anti-symmetric spatial wavefunction. The singlet spin state, on the other hand, is anti-symmetric, so it must be combined with a symmetric spatial wavefunction in order for the overall state of the system to be anti-symmetric.

In both cases, the state of the system is the product of one symmetric and one anti-symmetric component, giving overall an anti-symmetric state.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: looseleaf and vanhees71
vanhees71 said:
Only the spin part of the triplet state is symmetric (for all three states, which are given by ##|1/2,1/2 \rangle##, ##(|1/2,-1/2 \rangle+|-1/2,1/2 \rangle)/\sqrt{2}##, and ##|-1/2,-1/2 \rangle##). The spatial part of the wave function then must of course be antisymmetric, so that the overall two-particle wave function is anti-symmetric under exchange of the two fermions. For the singlet state, which is the antisymmetric combination of the spin state, the spatial part must be symmetric.

PeroK said:
The overall state of two electrons must be anti-symmetric. The triplet spin state is symmetric, so that must be combined with an anti-symmetric spatial wavefunction. The singlet spin state, on the other hand, is anti-symmetric, so it must be combined with a symmetric spatial wavefunction in order for the overall state of the system to be anti-symmetric.

In both cases, the state of the system is the product of one symmetric and one anti-symmetric component, giving overall an anti-symmetric state.

Ok thanks, that makes sense. Would you mind telling me then what the symmetric and antisymmetric spatial wf's look like in this case?
 
looseleaf said:
Would you mind telling me then what the symmetric and antisymmetric spatial wf's look like in this case?
That depends on the Hamiltonian operator of the system.
 
blue_leaf77 said:
That depends on the Hamiltonian operator of the system.
Sure, but isn't the Hamiltonian specified by looking at singlet / triplet states?
 
Last edited:
No, the Hamiltonian does not depend on any particular state. You start everything from the Schroedinger equation, in which in turn one needs to know the Hamiltonian operator.

By the way, the separation between the spatial and spin wavefunctions only applies for non-relativistic atoms, i.e. atoms with ##Z<20## because in this situation the spin-orbit coupling can be neglected. For heavy atoms, the Hamiltonian contains terms involving spins, which is due to the spin-orbit effect, and therefore in general ##[H,S_z]\neq 0##. In this case the wavefunctions cannot be separated into spatial and spin parts.

A rather intricate aspect about the spin wavefunctions of many electrons is that one cannot form an anti-symmetrical wavefunction when there are more than two electrons. This means for atoms having more than two electrons, even if the spin orbit effect is not significant, the total wavefunction does not separate into spatial and spin parts. In general, for such systems, the eigenfunctions of spin and of Hamiltonian are combined to form the so-called Slater determinant and the total wavefunction is equal to a Slater determinant (or a linear combination of it - since the eigenfunctions of Hamiltonian is infinitely numerable, there are also infinite possible Slater determinants). It follows from the interchange nature of a determinant, this kind of wavefunction is guaranteed to be antisymmetric.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K