Try Turbo-1's Habanero Sauce - Hot Stuff!

[Evo]

Interesting Don, but I think my best hope is some kind of hydroponic setup to achieve two or three harvests a year outside of the normal September - October harvest. All indoors with exposure to natural light if possible is my line of thinking. Add to this fact is the hydro system being tested just hit the market and there are pitfalls to using it, cooking the roots being one potential failure point. You must maintain the correct PH levels as well or game over. From what I have seen from outdoor growers or greenhouse problems, hail, wind, bugs, fungus, blossom end rot, the list goes on and on, if I could culture 8 to 12 plants 8 or more feet tall, I could have thousands of peppers, safe without less exposure to possible failure points. In the experiment stage, but like anything else in life worthwhile, it takes some investment, hard work, research, perseverance, and luck to succeed.

Rhody...

Hydroponic gardening has been around for decades Rhody. What is new about the system you're looking at?

 

[rhody]

Hydroponic gardening has been around for decades Rhody. What is new about the system you're looking at?

I haven't seen it, yet, just heard about it, the 8 pots (full sized pots are connected via water and air hoses, and I assume a main pump, and a tank that heats, disperses the heated water. You put grow media, on top of the tank where the soil is exposed. It is that patented white fluffy stuff (which I showed and tried in a previous post) which keeps out bugs, fungus, etc... The water and nutrients swirls below in the plants roots. That is my best guess at the moment, will let you know more once I see it work in person, you have to be careful with PH and temps or you can shock and burn the roots, so I am told. More later this week.

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

I haven't seen it, yet, just heard about it, the 8 pots (full sized pots are connected via water and air hoses, and I assume a main pump, and a tank that heats, disperses the heated water. You put grow media, on top of the tank where the soil is exposed. It is that patented white fluffy stuff (which I showed and tried in a previous post) which keeps out bugs, fungus, etc... The water and nutrients swirls below in the plants roots. That is my best guess at the moment, will let you know more once I see it work in person, you have to be careful with PH and temps or you can shock and burn the roots, so I am told. More later this week.

Rhody...

Can you link to the post, I must have mised it, sorry.

 

[rhody]

Can you link to the post, I must have mised it, sorry.

I don't have a link, just word or mouth by the shop owner whose website is here: LiveToGrow. Here is the Facebook site. I don't belong so I can't see what is there. Maybe some of you can check and report back.

Here is the growing media I was talking about, SureToGrow.

I will report back later in the week when I speak to the owner.

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

I don't have a link, just word or mouth by the shop owner whose website is here: LiveToGrow. Here is the Facebook site. I don't belong so I can't see what is there. Maybe some of you can check and report back.

Here is the growing media I was talking about, SureToGrow.

I will report back later in the week when I speak to the owner.

Rhody...

I was wondering if it was some sort of fabricated batting, I was right. Sounds like it works well.

PET Fiber
Polyethylene terephthalate (PET) is a relatively new arrival on the hydroponics scene. You are probably familiar with PET, even though you may not recognize it by name. PET is used to fabricate food containers (especially microwavable ones) and is commonly used as a batting for stuffing pillows. The development of PET as a hydroponics substrate was carried out primarily by the Dupont Corporation, who patented the technology in the late 90’s. Subsequently, the worldwide rights to manufacture and distribute it was licensed by Sure To Grow (which is also the trade name of the product - STG for short), a subsidiary of 6062 Holdings, LLC, based in Beachwood, Ohio.

STG is biologically inert and provided sterile from the manufacturer. Unlike rockwool, it is non-wicking (although a wicking formulation is under development) and will only draw water up to a height of about two inches. This keeps the root region moist while allowing the top to remain dry, thus discouraging surface algal growth. The material is hydrophilic and stores water in between the network of PET fibers from which it is made. When fully saturated it retains 25 per cent of its volume as air space. STG is very light and compressible so it can be shipped for relatively low cost. Probably only rice hulls can compete with it in this regard. STG is provided in standard shapes (1.5 and four inch cubes) as well as in sheets and as loose fill, so it can be used in any application where rockwool is used.


Figure 2. A relatively new product, PET is provided in forms designed to make it a direct substitute for rockwool. As shown here it comes as loose fill, as flat sheets and in cubes.
The low weight and flexibility of STG make it easy to work with. The sheets can simply be rolled up and disposed of, and although it is non-biodegradable, it doesn’t take up a lot of landfill space since it is so compressible.

Despite its many advantages (low weight, good wetting and aeration, inertness and biocompatibility, no affect on solution pH), it does have a couple of drawbacks. From a horticultural perspective, since it is non-wicking, directly sown seeds will likely require top watering to keep the moisture up. This could increase the amount of labor needed to start a crop. However, once the roots penetrate to the water level, top watering is no longer needed. As mentioned, PET is non-biodegradable and although it can be reused in theory, most growers choose to dispose of it rather than try to clean and reuse it. It has been shown to burn cleanly in incinerators so it has potential use as a fuel to avoid landfill deposition. PET is recyclable and can be used to make new packages, cosmetics, carpet, pillow fillings and fabrics. That said, most PET used in hydroponics is not recycled unless it is filtered from the waste stream by waste processors.

http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=400&submit=Go

 

[rhody]

One step forward, one step back, got my plants back from the grow shop, apparently the aphid problem is back. I bought this stuff, all natural, SNS 203. I have to treat the plants at least three times. They sell a jeweler's loop to check for the young aphids, they are almost clear and hard to see. He showed me with the loop and you could clearly see them, I treated all my plants at home as well. The guy at the grow shop says outdoors the aphids have natural enemies that are removed when you bring plants indoors. The guy in the video says it is near impossible to kill 100% of them. If you get 99% and then hope to control the rest before they re-infest the plants, that may be the best that you can hope for.

You can imagine how difficult it would be to rid yourself of these in a hydroponic system, it would require a lot more SNS 203. That's why he wasn't going to start them in his hydro system. The vendor did not ship all the right parts, and the aphid problem. These things don't hatch and do their dirty work until temperatures are in their comfort zone. Here is an article on http://www.selfsufficientish.com/chilipepper.htm survival temperatures. According to the article:

It should be noted that the growth of pepper plants is slow at temperatures below 15 degrees centigrade, the flowers form at temperatures of 18.5 degrees centigrade and fruit formation is hampered by temperatures over 32 degrees centigrade. Chili plants prefer a well-drained, sandy or silt-loam soil. If growing outside then stand the plants 18 cm apart in a sunny but sheltered site.

Here is an http://planetearth.nerc.ac.uk/news/story.aspx?id=562 on aphid adaptation to higher temperatures. It seems these little things have an upper limit on survival.

But in the hot experiment, the difference between life and death was only 3°C. Aphids stopped moving at 39°C and at 41-42°C they go into a heat coma and die. This lack of tolerance to hot temperature was seen for all three species, including the groups accustomed to higher temperature.

'The fact that aphids reared at higher temperatures did not increase their heat tolerance indicates that these insects are less able to adapt physiologically to high temperatures. This suggests that they are already living close to their upper temperature limit for survival,' says Hazell.

This article in summary suggests that for the three aphid species studied, increased temperatures at 19% or above Celsius that aphid survival, fertility rates decrease as temperatures rise. This makes sense.



Rhody...

 

[Evo]

A good spray with Sevin will cure the aphid problem overnight. Since your plants aren't setting fruit, there is nothing to worry about, if you are afraid of insecticides. It'll say on the bottle how many days before harvest it's safe to spray.

Your choice, healthy plants or healthy aphids.

 

[netgypsy]

what about using sulfur? It kills mites on cats who are really sensistive. You can use lime sulfur fruit tree spray 20 to 1 dilution or wettable sulfur. I would think it would kill aphids but don't know for sure?"

 

[Evo]

what about using sulfur? It kills mites on cats who are really sensistive. You can use lime sulfur fruit tree spray 20 to 1 dilution or wettable sulfur. I would think it would kill aphids but don't know for sure?"

I've used sulphur to treat mold & mildew on plants, but not aphids. I had to use another insecticide for the aphids.

 

[dlgoff]

A good spray with Sevin will cure the aphid problem overnight. Since your plants aren't setting fruit, there is nothing to worry about, if you are afraid of insecticides. It'll say on the bottle how many days before harvest it's safe to spray.

Your choice, healthy plants or healthy aphids.

Yes, yes, yes. Best stuff ever made for safe insect control. IMO.

 

[turbo]

I use no poison. I have tons of lady-bugs, and no real aphid problems in the garden. Yeah, I have the cute little beetles trying to over-winter in this log house, but they are harmless. Aphids reproduce a LOT faster than lady-bugs ever could, and if you use pesticides you will kill your best defense against aphids. Aphids bounce back in no time! Lady-bugs take time.

I'll probably get another egg-case of mantises this year. I'll also have to see if I can get eggs of other insect predators.

I would love to have a source for assassin-bug eggs. Those critters are impressive!

 

[rhody]

Lively discussion, thanks, Turbo, Don, Evo,

I tend to be on the conservative side and prefer to use natural oils, etc... on pests. That being said I have read this in at least 4 or 5 places and had almost as many tell me that short of taking a clean cutting from your plant and cloning it, there isn't much, organic or chemical that will kill 100% of them for good, as soon as their ideal proliferation conditions are met, surprise, surprise, they take hold again, then it is war to see if the plant can produce flowers/fruit before insect population(s) can overwhelm and kill it.

Last summer in June my plants outdoors had a large infestation of aphids (learned a lesson and will check for them every day), I stripped the leaves and soaked the plant in organic soap repeatedly, enough so that I got a very good harvest in September and October which I posted about here. If the root system is not compromised to the point that it can't support a healthy plant, drenching the roots can help. Even doing that, you can never get all of them. One article stated that if the outside temperatures were at or exceeded 42 Celsius or 107.6 Fahrenheit for a single day would wipe out the entire aphid population in the high temperature region. I recently posted a video where the hot chili pepper chef had his plants subjected to over 120 degrees Fahrenheit for two days and his peppers were mostly destroyed, he lost some leaves, and I would wager any little aphids and other insects of the same variety were history as well. The pepper plants seem to be able to tolerate higher temperatures than most pest varieties, they suffer damage, but not permanent. Peppers rule and insects drool I am afraid. I suppose soon after I treat my big ghosts for aphids, I will have to re-pot them and check the roots to be sure the plants are worth saving. I will say this so far, I am impressed with their toughness and resiliency, not to mention the peppers and heat that they are capable of producing. Add the ingredient of hydroponics to the equation and I would wager things get tougher and more dicey to handle, for every solution there are more problems to deal with, complexity leads to more complexity and expands the range of possible solutions, and with it a hit or miss answers to the problems. Imagine if I had these problems on a large number of plants. Things can get expensive in a hurry with no guarantee of success.

Rhody...

 

[netgypsy]

sulfur is quite natural and also repels flies. I add the lime sulfur mix to bath water for horses but I dilute with mineral oil rather than water and the stuff repels flies for a month. It does stink though but once they dry you can only smell it if you bury your face in the fur. I'll have to check it out for aphids. Cabbage, broccoli, garlic, Brussels sprouts and many other veggies are high sulfur so it's not hugely toxic.

OK google says sulfur and plants high in sulfur like garlic REPEL aphids so one would think that planting garlic with the peppers and using sulfur dust might be a safe possible at least partial solution. One source says to mix dish soap, mineral oil and water and spray with that mixture but keep the plant out of direct sunlight. another says to add liquified garlic to that mix.

 

[Evo]

Lively discussion, thanks, Turbo, Don, Evo,

Rhody, I had aphids last year, sprayed with aphid insecticed, and no return of aphids, those planst are here with me now, even after summering outdoors and not a single aphid has returned. Insecticides are the answer, but you believe what you want to believe. But aren't you listening to people that aren't using real insecticides and "natural" junk? Yeah, they will never be able to get rid of aphids.

Of course if you stop using insecticides and bring in an infected plant, you may have to spray again, but they'll all be dead in hours, before they can do damage.

 

[rhody]

Google alerts harvested this:

Ghost Pepper Bourbon County

As I said awhile ago, mankind's incorporation of the ghost pepper into the American psyche and now beer is well underway. This is just another example.

Another one, chronicle of the Trinidad Scorpion Butch T



The demand for these things is there folks you don't have to look too far.
Turbo, give some of the forums a look for recipes and let me know what you think, it looks like a pretty active forum. I love google alerts, without it I never would have found this easily.

Rhody...

 

[netgypsy]

Just google the insecticide before using it. Some are in particular directly linked to Parkinson's disease. Rotenone is also.

For those who preach "natural", I always remind them that arsenic, asbestos, uranium, cyanide, mercury, and all sorts of very very nasty poisons are totally natural.

I just like using sulfur because it is the only thing that killed a particularly nasty mite that was so bad many cat breeders were having to put down their animals until my vet found it was safe to use on cats and worked well. Good for head lice and bed bugs too, supposedly, as well as for aphids. Let me know if anyone tries it, how well it works.

(And for you cat lovers, NEVER use permethrin on a cat. Very nasty neurological reaction.)

 

[Evo]

I just like using sulfur because it is the only thing that killed a particularly nasty mite that was so bad many cat breeders were having to put down their animals until my vet found it was safe to use on cats and worked well. Good for head lice and bed bugs too, supposedly, as well as for aphids. Let me know if anyone tries it, how well it works.

I have a large bag of sulphur, but I mainly used it for mold and mildew on plants, but yeah, when we went camping we used it against ticks, we'd dust ourselves with it.

 

[netgypsy]

I bet ticks weren't all you repelled. hahaha

Many years ago when they used lime sulfur for head lice on kids, the kids had to sleep in the barn until the smell wore off.

http://new-self-sufficient-living.com/companion-planting.html

interesting site

 

[rhody]

The experiment is ON, the grow shop just started habaneros, ghosts, and scorpions from my seed, and Rhody has started ghosts and scorpions, same day. They difference is that the grow shop will raise them hydroponically and I conventionally. We will see what we will see. I am hoping the hydroponic plants will grow faster (by 1/3rd) and larger, but that remains to be seen. If I am going to plunk down a sufficient amount of cash and monthly expense in nutrients and power fora hydro system and massive grow lights, I have to prove it works. I want plants 6 to 9 feet tall producing hundreds of peppers at for each bloom cycle. Four to eight plants of this variety will do just fine. Three harvests per year, and not in the Sept - late October time frame is the goal.

Next on my agenda is cost for scoville testing to verify the heat of future harvests. The consumer market demands it so I must play by their rules. I hate rules...

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

The experiment is ON, the grow shop just started habaneros, ghosts, and scorpions from my seed, and Rhody has started ghosts and scorpions, same day. They difference is that the grow shop will raise them hydroponically and I conventionally. We will see what we will see. I am hoping the hydroponic plants will grow faster (by 1/3rd) and larger, but that remains to be seen. If I am going to plunk down a sufficient amount of cash and monthly expense in nutrients and power fora hydro system and massive grow lights, I have to prove it works. I want plants 6 to 9 feet tall producing hundreds of peppers at for each bloom cycle. Four to eight plants of this variety will do just fine. Three harvests per year, and not in the Sept - late October time frame is the goal.

Next on my agenda is cost for scoville testing to verify the heat of future harvests. The consumer market demands it so I must play by their rules. I hate rules...

Rhody...

My peppers have sprouted, I am guessing 12 or 13 days not bad, the two scorpions came up but nothing on my two ghost seeds yet. I just joined this forum: www.thehotpepper.com. Very active with lots of info and friendly folks, I just learned about these: http://smokinasschilli.com/products.php?29. The biggest and longest chili pepper growers seem to like to hang here, so I will do some digging, posting and responding, in case you were interested, here is my first post, and responses. I am going to see the shop where they sell the growing stuff to see how theirs are doing. Remember, I want to compare time to grow and methods. After a visit to the grow shop, their seeds have not sprouted yet (no heat mat) so I will be at least 7 or 8 days ahead of them by the time they do.

Just in case you want to see the Winners of The Hot Pepper Awards 2010, have a look. You might see something you would like to try or buy.


Rhody...

 

[turbo]

Maine has some low-volume suppliers of hot sauces, including some made with habaneros and ghosts.

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/01/...set-fire-to-taste-buds/?ref=mostReadBoxLiving

 

[rhody]

Maine has some low-volume suppliers of hot sauces, including some made with habaneros and ghosts.

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/01/...set-fire-to-taste-buds/?ref=mostReadBoxLiving

That is so funny Turbo, my "ghost peppers" google alert just send me the same link.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

That is so funny Turbo, my "ghost peppers" google alert just send me the same link.

Rhody...

The Mex had produced their own hot sauce for decades with nothing but 100% chilies. Pretty good fall-back if my sauces end up needing a boost.

 

[dlgoff]

... From what I have seen from outdoor growers or greenhouse problems, hail, wind, bugs, fungus, blossom end rot, the list goes on and on, ...

I've decided to try my hand at this technique next spring


http://howto.wired.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/Upsidedowntomatoes.jpeg/630px-Upsidedowntomatoes.jpeg


for a few tomato plants and a couple Ghosts from your seeds on the south side of my swing-set building/shed.

 

[rhody]

Here is a new wrinkle CO2 to cause faster plant growth ? Ever heard of anyone using this setup Tent (hydro) or growing technique ?

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

I've decided to try my hand at this technique next spring


http://howto.wired.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/Upsidedowntomatoes.jpeg/630px-Upsidedowntomatoes.jpeg


for a few tomato plants and a couple Ghosts from your seeds on the south side of my swing-set building/shed.

Don, the aphids are going to get dizzy, brilliant... lol.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

I hadn't thought about this, rhody, but many insectivores have preferential search patterns. For instance creepers come down the tree head-first, and the nuthatches climb upward, often passing very close to one another. If the ladybugs have a preferential direction, it might be a good idea to the keep plants in the orientation that made that direction easier for your "gardeners".

 

[rhody]

I hadn't thought about this, rhody, but many insectivores have preferential search patterns. For instance creepers come down the tree head-first, and the nuthatches climb upward, often passing very close to one another. If the ladybugs have a preferential direction, it might be a good idea to the keep plants in the orientation that made that direction easier for your "gardeners".

I was kidding Turbo, if there is a benefit from insects so be it, we will have to wait and see, maybe some have trouble orienting themselves in soil upside down to lay eggs. I guess it is possible. I will see if there are any serious papers I can find on it.

Rhody...

 

[Ms Music]

Any of you know what the latest is that I can start ghosts? I know it needs to be soon since we have such a long cool growing season, then short hot season (if any at all...), but I am so swamped I have no time for babying seeds on a heating pad. I know it may take up to a month for them to sprout, but how long does it take in general to fruit and mature? I am hoping I can stretch it out until my brother does his seeds and have him do it instead, but fear they will never fruit or turn red if they are sprouted too late in the spring.

BTW, I took Turbo's idea of ghost shrimp (probably not the same recipe at all) and have several people now addicted.

 

[netgypsy]

If you have a grow light I would think you can do them any time in your house? In Florida I had a rainbow hot pepper plant that produced for four years before it finally froze because I forgot to protect it. And in Colombia (12 hour days and nights) the bird peppers grew wild and got huge. I know ghosts are different but it seems from my experience that many types of spicy peppers aren't that light sensitive and grow pretty much all the time as long as they don't freeze.

Ghost shrimp - yummm. A restaurant called California Dreaming used to make the most amazing shrimp dish using lightly sauteed finely chopped hot peppers, garlic, tomato, lemon and I'm thinking a little cilantro. Unfortunately they stopped making it but I did do a reasonable facsimile that was quite good. They're served with croissants freshly baked with honey butter on top. YUMM