Trying to Convert an Equation into an Ionic Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around converting a chemical equation involving lead sulfate (PbSO4) into an ionic equation. Participants explore the oxidation states of lead in different compounds and the implications for charge balance in the equation. The context includes theoretical and practical aspects related to lead-acid batteries.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that PbSO4(aq) must dissociate into Pb2+(aq) and SO42-(aq), but questions how Pb can transition from Pb2+ to Pb4+ in PbO2(aq).
  • Another participant points out that both PbSO4 and PbO2 are solids, indicating a potential issue with balancing the equation as written, noting that charge is only on one side.
  • Further clarification is provided that the substances are indeed solids in the context of a lead-acid battery, which operates in concentrated sulfuric acid.
  • A participant emphasizes that the charge does not need to remain constant, highlighting the presence of Pb metal with a charge of 0 and discussing the oxidation states involved in the lead-acid battery.
  • Suggestions are made to start with the formal non-ionic equation and incorporate H2O and H+ to aid in deriving the ionic equation, while also referencing the complexity of the task.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the compounds involved and the charge balance in the equation. There is no consensus on the correct approach to converting the equation into an ionic form, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the oxidation states and the role of different species in the lead-acid battery, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the solubility and state of the compounds involved.

student34
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Homework Statement



PbSO4(aq) >>> Pb(s) + PbO2(aq) + S042-(aq)

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution



PbSO4(aq) must be Pb2+(aq) SO42-

But PbO2(aq) seems to have to be Pb4+(aq) + 2O-(aq)

How can Pb go from Pb2+(aq) to Pb4+(aq); doesn't it have to keep the same charge?
 
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Both PbSO4 and PbO2 are solids.

Note that there is no way to balance the equation as written - charge is only on one side.
 
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Borek said:
Both PbSO4 and PbO2 are solids.

Note that there is no way to balance the equation as written - charge is only on one side.

I'm sorry. I just noticed in brackets it says that they are soluble because they are in an acid solution.
 
Then the box is simply not true - please read about how the lead battery works. Its construction is based on the fact both these substances are solids immersed in the concentrated sulfuric acid.
 
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Borek said:
Then the box is simply not true - please read about how the lead battery works. Its construction is based on the fact both these substances are solids immersed in the concentrated sulfuric acid.

Thanks for the reassurance, it must be another mistake in my textbook.
 
When you say it has to keep the same charge, no it does not - you also have Pb metal in there which has another charge (0). In fact not having the same charge is of the essence in oxidation of metals isn't it? and in the lead-acid battery you do have three levels of lead oxidation involved.
It might help to try the formal non-ionic equation first, but you can't do it with what you've got in yours - you also need H2O.
Then try to get the ionic one. Include H+. You are also allowed to use HSO4-. Spend a little time to try and get it, because if you do that first and then look it up it might click whereas if you only look it up you will say yes yes and forget it by next time. It is quite tricky.

There is an account of this quite important application in links here: https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...ipitation-of-unknown-ion.790077/#post-4980286
 
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