Trying to make sense of the double slit "experiment"

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the double slit experiment in quantum mechanics, focusing on the behavior of electrons as they pass through the slits and the implications of their deflection and interference patterns. Participants explore concepts related to quantum theory, classical trajectories, and the nature of particles and waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the source of the force that deflects electrons in the double slit experiment, suggesting it may come from the experimental apparatus and inquiring about the implications for conservation of energy.
  • Another participant notes that while a free electron can be modeled classically, its behavior becomes non-classical when confined to the slits, introducing the concept of a double potential well and lateral momentum from interactions with the slits.
  • It is mentioned that the wave character of electrons leads to uncertainty in their transverse position and momentum, drawing parallels to the behavior of photons in optics.
  • Some participants express concern about the approach of questioning established theories without a solid understanding of them, suggesting that uninformed challenges may not be productive.
  • There is a discussion about the importance of understanding commonly accepted theories before attempting to challenge them, with one participant emphasizing that uninformed challenges could lead to misunderstandings.
  • A participant questions the expectation of accepting ideas without analysis, prompting further discussion on the nature of physics education and the value of informed questioning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the approach to questioning established theories, with some advocating for a more informed basis for challenges while others emphasize the value of questioning itself. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the double slit experiment and the nature of electron behavior.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about classical versus quantum behavior, as well as the definitions of force and momentum in the context of quantum mechanics. These aspects remain unresolved and open to interpretation.

Claude
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How did you find PF?: A quick Google search of Physics forum gave me a link to this site.

I have a good background in science (BSC Mathematics), but not specifically in Quantum theory. That happened after I left University.
I have read lots, know a fair bit but wouldn't dare to claim I "understand" too much of it (beyond classical relativity).
I believe the best way to progress (for me) is to question / challenge commonly accepted ideas and theories that one is expected to accept without too much analysis.
Being an outsider and a "newbie", I ask for your understanding and forgiveness in advance. But know that I always appreciate the chance to learn from those who have more knowledge than I. So long as you can justify your position - I don't believe in dogma...
So let's have some fun!

My first question is this:
Shooting electrons through a double slit (refer Dr. Tonomura and Belsazar), electrons are fired individually and detected as individual events on the other side of the slits.
As you know, the electrons appear to land "randomly" until an interference pattern eventually emerges.

My question is this: A particular electron is expected to travel in a straight line unless some force is applied to deflect it.
As is obvious in this particular experiment, electrons ARE deflected. Sometimes quite a lot.
What is the source of the force? Is it accidentally provided by the experiment apparatus?
Doesn't the conservation of energy apply?

Sorry if this is trivial or silly...
 
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Claude said:
My question is this: A particular electron is expected to travel in a straight line unless some force is applied to deflect it.
As is obvious in this particular experiment, electrons ARE deflected. Sometimes quite a lot.
What is the source of the force? Is it accidentally provided by the experiment apparatus?
Doesn't the conservation of energy apply?

In QM, particles do not have a well-defined trajecory. That said, a free electron fired at the slits can be modeled quite well by a classical path. When the electron is confined to two narrow slits, however, its behaviour can no longer be modeled classically. One way to look at the double slit is that the electron, for a short time, is trapped in a double potential well. Then, afterwards, it is free again, but has picked up an uncertain amount of lateral momentum from its time in the potential well.

If you look at it closely, then this lateral momentum must have come from an interaction with the slits. I found this analysis, for example:

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/701/1/012007/pdf
 
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Hello and :welcome:

Claude said:
A particular electron is expected to travel in a straight line
To some considerable extent. However, the wave character of electrons makes that you can't have an exact transversal position and zero uncertainty on the transverse momentum. From there on it's all exactly as in the case with photons:optics.

https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/III_01.html
 
Claude said:
that one is expected to accept without too much analysis.
Claude said:
I don't believe in dogma...

You are coming into this with a view of what a physics education is that is a) wrong, and b) insulting to those of us who have gone through it. Are you sure this is the path you want to take?

Claude said:
I believe the best way to progress (for me) is to question / challenge commonly accepted ideas and theories

Usually not. Presenting a parade of incorrect statements hoping to be corrected is slow, inefficient and more likely than not to make everyone cross. A better way is for you to do some reading and say something like"in X they say Y, but I don't understand how they got from A to B." You might take a look at https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/little-excuse-ask-question-cold/

As pointed out, you start to go awry here:

Claude said:
A particular electron is expected to travel in a straight line unless some force is applied to deflect it.

That's true for planets and baseballs, where the wave nature is irrelevant. It is not true for electrons where the wave nature is important. Electrons can diffract and interfere, like waves. And they can be counted like particles.
 
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Claude said:
I believe the best way to progress (for me) is to question / challenge commonly accepted ideas and theories...
That approach requires that you first understand the commonly accepted theories. Otherwise you're challenging a straw man, and all you'll ever get from that is a belated awareness that it was unworthy of your time.

So to the extent that you want to properly understand what quantum physics does say, this forum is the right place to ask questions. Uninformed challenges, not so much.
 
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Claude said:
that one is expected to accept without too much analysis

Expected by whom?
 

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