Trying to Understand the Role of Water in Combustion

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Swampeast Mike
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Combustion Water
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of water in combustion, exploring various statements related to energy states, the nature of flames, and the conditions under which water exists in different states. Participants examine the implications of these statements and question their validity, particularly in relation to extreme temperatures and states of matter.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that water is a product of hydrogen combustion and discusses the relationship between energy states and the temperature of water produced.
  • Another participant challenges the validity of the initial statements, suggesting that they are not true.
  • A different participant argues against the claim that water cannot exist as a solid under certain conditions, stating that water behaves differently as it approaches absolute zero.
  • This participant also suggests that achieving a state where atoms cannot hold together would require temperatures below absolute zero, which is currently considered impossible.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of Bose-Einstein Condensates, implying that this may be relevant to the discussion of water and extreme states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of the initial statements about water and energy states, with no consensus reached on the interpretations or implications presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved questions about the behavior of water at extreme temperatures and the definitions of states of matter, particularly regarding absolute zero and its implications for atomic structure.

Swampeast Mike
Messages
48
Reaction score
1
Are these statements fair and true?

Water is one of two products of the combustion of hydrogen.

Flame is in part a visual manifestation of a collapse in energy state.

Heat is a radiant manifestation of a collapse in energy state.

The deeper the collapse in energy state the lower the state and temperature of the water produced.

The following is statement is one of dual identity: an object cannot radiate before it accepts radiation

While plasma cannot always be detected in flame due to inability to detect the temperature at which it must exist, evidence that it has been there exists.

Plasma can be considered as sub-atomic particles so possessive of their radiant energy that the only way they can associate with each other is by interacting via radiation.

If the above statements are valid interpretations of law, I question:

What conditions would have to exist for the collapse in state to be so complete that water could not exist as a solid? Absolute zero? Or to put plasma in colloquial terms, "Something so hot that it has no place on the temperature scale."
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Swampeast Mike said:
Are these statements fair and true?
No .
 
My humble answer... #2 is clearly wrong. Water like other things fall into a crystalline state of order as they approach absolute zero. Water is strange in that so far the electrons don't completely align as it falls to absolute zero like you would expect them to do. This is being investigated.

If you get a cold state that makes it impossible for atoms to hold together it would have to be below what physics currently considers absolute zero. Do it and you can become a physics professor and get your face plastered all over Scientific American.
 
You might want to read up on Bose-Einstein Condensates.
 

Similar threads

Undergrad Potential energy and the gravitational field of a collapsing cloud of gas
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Synhelion -- Using solar heliostat farms to create liquid fuels from Water Vapor and CO2
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Undergrad CMB creation, distance measurement question
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
How Can I Store Methane Produced from CO2 and Water Without Combustion?
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K
Thermodynamics.... Constant volume pressure of combustion
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
9K
Cooking (Thermodynamics) Problems
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K
Modeling Heat Transfer from a Flame to a Copper Tube using ANSYS
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Undergrad Some questions about Cosmic Microwave Background radiation
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
7K
High School Beware of "truthiness" in astronomy in seemingly reliable websites
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
Undergrad Trouble understanding the SI definition of 1 second
  • · Replies 56 ·
2
Replies
56
Views
7K