Tunneling through a PE barrier

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    Barrier Tunneling
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of quantum tunneling, specifically regarding how an alpha particle escapes the nucleus by overcoming a potential energy barrier created by Coulombic repulsion. Participants explore the implications of energy conservation in this context, particularly in relation to quantum mechanics and classical physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how energy conservation can be violated during the tunneling process, questioning the nature of energy conservation in quantum mechanics.
  • Another participant argues that energy conservation is not violated, explaining that the kinetic energy can be negative in quantum mechanics and that total energy remains constant.
  • The second participant introduces the concept of kinetic energy as an operator acting on a wavefunction, suggesting that this leads to different behaviors of the wavefunction, such as growing or decaying rather than oscillating.
  • A third participant indicates a lack of understanding regarding the technical terms used, finding the explanation too complex.
  • A suggestion is made to read introductory texts on quantum mechanics to better grasp the concepts discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are differing views on the interpretation of energy conservation in the context of quantum tunneling, and some participants express confusion about the technical explanations provided.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about energy conservation and the definitions of kinetic energy in quantum mechanics. The mathematical details and implications of negative kinetic energy are not fully resolved.

kalery
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I'm still in Intro Physics, and I'm a little perplexed by the concept of tunneling. An alpha particle escapes the nucleus by overcoming a potential energy barrier created by Coulombic repulsion with the protons of the nucleus, but this is a spontaneous process and does not require E input, according to my textbook. Energy conservation is violated to allow the alpha particle to move through this E barrier for a brief time interval because unk(E)unk(t) >= hbar. What's going on here... I mean, is this really what happens... How can energy conservation be violated? I thought that despite all the quantum phenomena violating classical Newtonian physics, that energy conservation still is supposed to remain constant?
 
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Conservation of energy is not violated. What you think is kinetic energy, namely the classical kinetic energy of a point particle as it travels through the barrier, seems to be negative, i.e., [tex]K = E-U(x)[/tex]. The total energy, namely [tex]E[/tex], remains constant, and so conserved.

So now you just need to come to grips with the fact that the kinetic energy is negative. In quantum mechanics, the kinetic energy is an operator acting on a wavefunction, and in 1D is given by [itex]-\hbar^2 \frac{d}{dx}[/itex]. If the kinetic energy is negative, it means that the wavefunction is a growing or (usually) decaying, instead of oscillating. Think of this operator acting on [tex]\psi(x) = e^{-\lambda x}[/tex], versus [tex]\psi(x) = e^{i k x}[/tex].
 
dont understand what is Ibrits talking about... too complex -.-"
What do you mean by kinetic energy is an operator acting on a wavefunction" and "wavefunction is a growing or (usually) decaying, instead of oscillating"?
 
kensaurus: Read an introductory text on quantum mechanics.
 

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