Turbo Alternator: How Can It Increase Vehicle Efficiency?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of using a turbocharger to drive an alternator in vehicles, with the aim of increasing fuel efficiency and reducing parasitic losses associated with traditional alternator systems. Participants explore various technical aspects, potential benefits, and challenges related to this idea, including its feasibility and implications for vehicle performance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests connecting a turbocharger to an alternator to reduce parasitic losses and improve efficiency, while also considering the need for a gear reduction system to manage the high RPMs of the turbo.
  • Another participant proposes a hydraulic drive system off the turbo as a potentially more efficient alternative to gears or belts, which could also power other vehicle systems.
  • Concerns are raised about the low parasitic losses of alternators and the challenges of gearing down the turbo's speed to match the alternator's requirements, which may lead to high effective inertia.
  • Some participants discuss the potential for using smaller turbos, such as those designed for motorcycles, to minimize weight and space issues.
  • There is a consideration of the trade-offs involved, including the added weight and complexity of a turbo system, as well as the potential for increased power loss due to the engine working harder to expel exhaust gases.
  • One participant mentions the possibility of using capacitors or a continuously variable transmission (CVT) to help manage power delivery from the turbo to the alternator.
  • Several participants express enthusiasm for the idea, noting the innovative nature of the concept and the collaborative spirit of the forum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of support and skepticism regarding the feasibility of using a turbocharger to drive an alternator. While some see potential benefits, others highlight significant challenges and trade-offs that may limit its practicality. No consensus is reached on the overall viability of the concept.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the high turn-down ratio required for gearing the turbo to the alternator, the potential for increased power loss, and the need for water resistance in the design. There are also discussions about the specific sizing and engineering challenges associated with integrating a turbo system into existing vehicle architectures.

  • #31
Allenman said:
I kind of overlooked your post at first, but yeah prius's have their alternator/motor wedged in between the engine and trans (not belt driven but it does take energy to spin it).

My question is how much force is required to spin the turbodrive alternator when it's at full output and how much backpressure will that create in the exhaust?
That is one of the reasons why this prototype is important.

Sad to say, it is difficult to find the performance specs for turbines. I did find mass-flow, efficiency charts for the turbo charger I'd bought several years ago but my best case estimate including injecting enough water for 20 kW is not even close to the graph (see earlier post.) I've sadly oversized the turbine by nearly half an order of magnitude. But I can still get useful data and use it for system integration and test.

I have found a motorcycle turbo that is more correctly sized for the gas flow of the 64 hp of my 2003 Prius but before I spend any more money, I want to make sure the system elements work well enough to trust exchanging the turbo. There are 'devils in the details' and I don't think I've figured them all out, yet.

BTW, the 250 W, back-pressure model is for a 2:1 pressure ratio of the turbine. It turns out whatever the actual pressure ratio of the real turbine, you can multiply it minus 1 times 250 W to estimate the back-pressure overhead. But then that is why we experiment.

Bob Wilson
 
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  • #32
Hey i was just letting you know I'm watching this and thinking something of the same thing as you guys are...but I'm doing it in a race car I'm building, I'm plan on doing it in a Dodge Charger, and want all parasitic loss of the drive train, currently using a supercharger, but to get the boost i want, i will need to switch to a turbo and it hit me today, that a turbo pulley/belt system like on the engine, using the OEM accessories and making something for them to mount to and run them in the same style but using a turbine to power all the accessories insead of making to motor do it. Just letting you know I'm watching, and hoping to hear good things. Might be trying this.
 
  • #33
"All this has happened before, and will happen again"

http://www.heat2power.net/en__benchmark.php

comp_electricturbocompound_01.jpg


comp_johndeere_turbocompound_02.png
 
  • #34
Bob Wilson, I think you're onto something. Rather than using existing parts and trying to cobble them together in series, you may want to make an alternator that's driven by the turbine section. So basically, you remove the compressor and replace it with the stator-assembly from an alternator. Replace the compressor-housing with the alternator rotor.

Due to the high velocities, you're going to get very high voltage AC output. A buck-regulator with induction-coil can be used to store the high-voltage and have it be returned slower as lower-voltage. Then rectify as necessary. Although the Prius uses 288v batteries, so this might actually be a match made in heaven.
 

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