Turing-recognizable infinite language, decidable subset

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of demonstrating that every infinite Turing-recognizable language has an infinite decidable subset. Participants explore various approaches and ideas related to this theoretical problem, which is rooted in the context of formal language theory and computability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests modifying the recognizer to reject strings whose prefix matches the shortest strings on which the recognizer doesn't halt, but expresses uncertainty about whether the resulting subset is non-empty or infinite.
  • Another participant notes that while the question is challenging, it is not homework and suggests moving the discussion to a more appropriate section.
  • A different participant mentions that the recognized language is enumerable and considers the need for a subset that can be enumerated in a finite number of trials, questioning how to achieve an infinite subset through enumeration.
  • One participant proposes considering a lexicographic enumerator over the language and discusses the implications of running this enumerator over an arbitrary string, indicating that something must happen after a finite time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods to approach the problem, with no consensus reached on a specific solution or method. Uncertainty remains regarding the construction of an infinite decidable subset from the infinite Turing-recognizable language.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their approaches, including the challenge of ensuring that the constructed subset is infinite and the dependence on the properties of enumerators.

phoenix-anna
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Summary:: Show that every infinite Turning-recognizable language has an infinite decidable subset

Sipser's Theory of Computation, third edition, chapter three contains and exercise that asks us to demonstrate this. I don't know how to do this; I have certain ideas. We could modify the recognizer to reject strings whose prefix matches the shortest strings on which the recognizer doesn't halt. This machine would, I believe, decide a subset of the original recognized language. However, it is not clear that the resulting subset is non-empty, let alone infinite.
 
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  1. Although this is not homework it belongs in a homework section, I'll get it moved.
  2. This is not an easy question if you have not seen it before.
  3. I don't think you will get there with your recogniser.
Try an enumerator.
 
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Well the hint says to consider enumerators. It is clear that the recognized language is enumerable. However, it seems we need a subset that can be enumerated in a finite number of trials. If we run the enumerator 1000 times, for example, we will see 1000 or fewer strings in the language. That is a subset but it is not infinite. It seems that to get an infinite subset we would have to run the enumerator 1000 times. So I am still not seeing the answer.
 
phoenix-anna said:
However, it seems we need a subset that can be enumerated in a finite number of trials.
Aren't we looking for an infinite subset? Anyway, let's not consider an enumerator over a subset when we haven't worked out yet how to construct any subset.

Instead, consider a lexicographic enumerator ## E ## over the language ## L ##. Write down an arbitrary string ## w ## and set ## E ## running. After finite time then one of two things must happen.
 

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