Two charged beads with a third bead in equilibrium

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the equilibrium of a third charged bead positioned between two other charged beads. Participants explore the conditions under which the electric fields from the two charges balance at the location of the third bead, which is crucial for determining the stability of the equilibrium.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss various methods to derive the relationship between the distances of the charged beads. There are considerations of solving a quadratic equation and taking square roots to find potential values for the distance. Questions arise regarding the implications of different charge polarities on equilibrium stability.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active with participants offering different approaches to the problem, including algebraic manipulation and conceptual insights into stability. There is recognition of the ambiguity in solutions and the need to consider the nature of the charges involved. Some participants express uncertainty about the stability of the equilibrium point and how perturbations affect it.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the nature of equilibrium, including the distinction between being balanced and stable. There is an emphasis on the mathematical aspects of determining stability through derivatives, though some participants express a lack of familiarity with calculus.

  • #31
I understood the situation intuitively and conceptually concerning the equilibrium issue, but couldn't wrap my head around how the mathematics dictate whether the equilibrium is stable or not.
 
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  • #32
putongren said:
I understood the situation intuitively and conceptually concerning the equilibrium issue, but couldn't wrap my head around how the mathematics dictate whether the equilibrium is stable or not.
Mathematically, one evaluates the second derivative of the potential energy at the equilibrium position.
  • If the result is positive, the equilibrium is stable.
  • If the result is negative, the equilibrium is unstable.
 
  • #33
kuruman said:
Mathematically, one evaluates the second derivative of the potential energy at the equilibrium position.
  • If the result is positive, the equilibrium is stable.
  • If the result is negative, the equilibrium is unstable.
I'm not sure whether @putongren's difficulty is with the mathematical formulation or why it is correct.
At the equilibrium point, the first derivative is zero; i.e. the gradient is horizontal. If the second derivative is positive then the gradient is increasing as x increases. Since the gradient is zero at the equilibrium point, that means it is negative to the left of the point and positive to the right. Hence it is in the bottom of a dip.

There is also the possibility that the second derivative is also zero. In this case, you just have to keep taking more derivatives until you reach the first that is nonzero there.
Having reached it, it matters whether you had to differentiate an odd or even number of times. If an even number, positive indicates a minimum and negative indicates a maximum, as in the simple case discussed above.
But if an odd number of differentiations then it is neither a minimum nor a maximum. Instead, it is a "saddle", a kind of inflexion point.

E.g. consider ##y=x^3##. The first nonzero derivative at x=0 is the third, making zero an inflexion. But for ##y=x^4## the first nonzero derivative at x=0 is the fourth, where it is 24, making it a minimum.
 
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