Two-Dimensional Elastic Collision of Equal Masses

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around an elastic collision between two equal masses, specifically focusing on proving that the final velocities of the two masses are perpendicular when the collision is not head-on. Participants explore the implications of conservation of momentum and energy in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the derivation of equations related to momentum and kinetic energy, questioning the dimensional correctness of certain expressions. There is an exploration of the implications of the collision being non-head-on and how that affects the final velocities.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on reviewing derivations and assumptions. There is ongoing exploration of different interpretations of the results, particularly regarding the conditions under which the velocities can be considered non-zero.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of proving a specific geometric relationship in the context of elastic collisions, with an emphasis on the conditions of the collision being non-head-on. The discussion includes considerations of the implications of conservation laws in this scenario.

flamespirit919
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Homework Statement


Show that if an elastic collision between a mass and a stationary target of equal mass is not head-on that the projectile and target final velocities are perpendicular. (Hint: Square the conservation of momentum equation, using ##p^2=p\cdot p##, and compare the resulting equation with the energy conservation equation.)

Homework Equations


##p=mv##
##K=\frac{1}{2}mv^2##

The Attempt at a Solution


So I followed the hint and got $$\overrightarrow{p_1^2}=\overrightarrow{p_1^{'2}}+\overrightarrow{p_2^{'2}}+2\left(\overrightarrow{p_1}\cdot \overrightarrow{p_2}\right)$$ Plugging in values I got $$m^2\overrightarrow{v_1^2}=m^2\overrightarrow{v_1^{'2}}+m^2\overrightarrow{v_2^{'2}}+2\left(m\overrightarrow{v}_1\cdot m\overrightarrow{v}_2\right)$$ $$\overrightarrow{v_1^2}=\overrightarrow{v_1^{'2}}+\overrightarrow{v_2^{'2}}$$ For the x- and y-components I got the following assuming the target traveled along the x-axis after the collision $$v_1^2cos^2(\theta)=v_1^{'2}cos^2(\theta ^{'})+v_2^{'2}$$ $$v_1^2sin^2(\theta)=v_1^{'2}sin^2(\theta ^{'})$$ This is where I got stuck and wasn't sure how to solve for ##v_1^{'}## or ##v_2^{'}##. I'm not entirely sure when or how to apply the equation for kinetic energy. Am I in the right direction or did I do something wrong?
 
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You did something wrong. The last two equations are dimensionally incorrect. Review their derivation.
 
kuruman said:
You did something wrong. The last two equations are dimensionally incorrect. Review their derivation.
I forgot to square the initial velocity. Were there any other mistakes?
 
I think I got it.

So the momentum in the x and y-direction is $$v_1=v_1^{'}cos(\theta _1)+v_2^{'}cos(\theta _2)$$ $$0=v_1^{'}sin(\theta _1)-v_2^{'}sin(\theta _2)$$ I then used the following to find the magnitude of the momentum $$p^2=p_x^2+p_y^2$$ Doing this I got $$v_1=v_1^{'2}(cos^2(\theta _1)+sin^2(\theta _1))+v_2^{'2}(cos^2(\theta _2)+sin^2(\theta _2))+2v_1^{'}v_2^{'}(cos(\theta _1)cos(\theta _2)-sin(\theta _1)sin(\theta _2))$$ Using trig identities and the law of cosines, I simplified it to $$v_1^2=v_1^{'2}+v_2^{'2}+2v_1^{'}v_2^{'}cos(\theta _1+\theta _2)$$ Knowing that kinetic energy is conserved in an elastic collision I used the equation for kinetic energy and simplified $$\frac{1}{2}mv_1^2=\frac{1}{2}mv_1^{'2}+\frac{1}{2}mv_2^{'2}$$ $$v_1^2=v_1^{'2}+v_2^{'2}$$ With this formula, ##v_1^2## can be substituted for ##v_1^{'2}+v_2^{'2}## After substituting the equation simplifies to $$0=2v_1^{'}v_2^{'}cos(\theta _1+\theta _2)$$ Solving results in $$v_1^{'}=0$$ $$v_2^{'}=0$$ $$cos(\theta _1+\theta _2)=0$$ Solving for the last equation results in $$\theta _1+\theta _2 = 90°\text{ or }\frac{\pi}{2}$$ Thus, the two velocities must be perpendicular.
 
flamespirit919 said:
Solving results in $$v_1^{'}=0$$ $$v_2^{'}=0$$ $$cos(\theta _1+\theta _2)=0$$
it results in at least one of those three. How do you rule out the first two?
 
haruspex said:
it results in at least one of those three. How do you rule out the first two?
The question asks to prove that the two velocities will be perpendicular, so I assumed the velocities to be non-zero because otherwise there would be no answer as the angle between the two velocities would not exist.
 
flamespirit919 said:
The question asks to prove that the two velocities will be perpendicular, so I assumed the velocities to be non-zero because otherwise there would be no answer as the angle between the two velocities would not exist.
You are given that the collision is not head-on. From that you can show neither velocity is zero.
 
haruspex said:
You are given that the collision is not head-on. From that you can show neither velocity is zero.
That makes sense, thank you very much.
 
Here is a quick geometric proof, not that your algebraic proof is incorrect.
Momentum conservation for a two equal-mass collision requires that ##\vec{v}_1={\vec{v_1}'}+{\vec{v_2}'}##.
Since the collision is not one-dimensional, if you draw a vector addition diagram, you get a closed triangle with the magnitudes of the three vectors as its sides.
Energy conservation for a two equal-mass collision requires that ##v_1^2= {v'_1}^2+{v'_1}^2##.
Therefore, said triangle obeys the Pythagorean theorem with ##v_1## as the hypotenuse and ##{v'_1}## and ##{v'_2}## as the two right sides.
 
  • #10
kuruman said:
Here is a quick geometric proof, not that your algebraic proof is incorrect.
Momentum conservation for a two equal-mass collision requires that ##\vec{v}_1={\vec{v_1}'}+{\vec{v_2}'}##.
Since the collision is not one-dimensional, if you draw a vector addition diagram, you get a closed triangle with the magnitudes of the three vectors as its sides.
Energy conservation for a two equal-mass collision requires that ##v_1^2= {v'_1}^2+{v'_1}^2##.
Therefore, said triangle obeys the Pythagorean theorem with ##v_1## as the hypotenuse and ##{v'_1}## and ##{v'_2}## as the two right sides.
Thank you! I wish I had seen that sooner.
 

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