Two Identical non-entangled Particle System

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of wave functions for two identical non-entangled particles, particularly focusing on the mathematical relationships between symmetric and antisymmetric states. Participants explore the implications of indistinguishability and the role of phase factors in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the relationship $$|\psi(x_1,x_2)|^2=|\psi(x_2,x_1)|^2$$ leads to $$\psi(x_1,x_2)=+/-\psi(x_2,x_1)$$ and suggests that it may involve the modulus.
  • Another participant notes that in three dimensions, the phase factor $$e^{i \alpha}$$ simplifies to $$\pm 1$$, indicating that swapping two particles twice should yield the same state.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of including both terms $$\psi_a(x_1)\psi_b(x_2)$$ and $$\psi_a(x_2)\psi_b(x_1)$$ in the wave function, with some participants suggesting it arises from the indistinguishability of particles.
  • Concerns are raised about the interpretation of probabilities associated with the terms in the wave function, questioning whether they would yield a probability of 0.5 each.
  • One participant emphasizes that without external labels, such as location, the two terms in the wave function cannot be distinguished.
  • A later reply challenges the justification for the relationship $$\psi(x_1,x_2)=+/-\psi(x_2,x_1)$$, suggesting that a satisfactory explanation is lacking outside of established theorems like the spin-statistics theorem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the justification for the relationship between the wave functions and the implications of indistinguishability. Multiple competing views remain on the necessity of the additional terms in the wave function and the interpretation of the phase factor.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved assumptions about the dimensionality of the system and the implications of the spin-statistics theorem, as well as the dependence on specific definitions of indistinguishability and particle types.

TimeRip496
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$$|\psi(x_1,x_2)|^2=|\psi(x_2,x_1)|^2$$
$$\psi(x_1,x_2)=+/-\psi(x_2,x_1)$$
How do they convert they former into the latter one? Is it due to the modulus?

I know the latter can also be written as $$\psi(x_1,x_2)=e^{i\alpha}\psi(x_2,x_1)$$ where the exponential is the phase used to replace +/-.

$$\psi(x_1,x_2)=A[\psi_a(x_1)\psi_b(x_2)\pm\psi_a(x_2)\psi_b(x_1)]$$
As for this, isn't $$\Psi(x_1,x_2)=\Psi_a(x_1) \Psi_b(x_2)$$? Why do we need to add the additional one?

Is it because, the particles are indistinguishable and thus we can add $$\psi_a(x_2)\psi_b(x_1)$$?

If that is the case, won't $$(A\psi_a(x_1)\psi_b(x_2))^2$$ or $$(A\psi_a(x_2)\psi_b(x_1))^2$$ be 0.5(probability) each?
 
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In three dimensions, the phase ##e^{i \alpha}## reduces to ##\pm 1## by asserting that swapping two particles twice should be the same as doing nothing. So the swapping operator must have eigenvalues ##\pm 1##. In two dimensions, you can get anyons besides bosons and fermions. For more than two particles, you can get states that are not symmetric nor antisymmetric.

TimeRip496 said:
isn't $$\Psi(x_1,x_2)=\Psi_a(x_1) \Psi_b(x_2)$$? Why do we need to add the additional one?

Is it because, the particles are indistinguishable and thus we can add $$\psi_a(x_2)\psi_b(x_1)$$?

If there is no external label such as location (e.g. one particle is in D.C. while another is in Moscow) you can't distinguish between the first and the second terms.
 
Last edited:
Truecrimson said:
In three dimensions, the phase ##e^{i \alpha}## reduces to ##\pm 1## by asserting that swapping two particles twice should be the same as doing nothing. So the swapping operator must have eigenvalues ##\pm 1##. In two dimensions, you can get anyons besides bosons and fermions. For more than two particles, you can get states that are not symmetric nor antisymmetric.
If there is no external label such as location (e.g. one particle is in D.C. while another is in Moscow) you can't distinguish between the first and the second terms.
But how do you get $$\psi(x_1,x_2)=+/-\psi(x_2,x_1)$$ from
$$|\psi(x_1,x_2)|^2=|\psi(x_2,x_1)|^2$$?
 
TimeRip496 said:
But how do you get $$\psi(x_1,x_2)=+/-\psi(x_2,x_1)$$ from
$$|\psi(x_1,x_2)|^2=|\psi(x_2,x_1)|^2$$?

Without simply asserting it, I don't think there is a satisfactory justification for the first line other than the spin-statistics theorem in 3+1 (or higher)-dimensional quantum field theories. That's why anyons are possible in 2+1 dimensions.

Edit: Source
 

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