Confusion about Slater Determinants

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the construction and properties of Slater determinants for a system of two identical fermions, focusing on the implications of antisymmetry, the role of quantum numbers, and the conditions under which certain states can exist. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical formulations, and conceptual clarifications related to fermionic states, including spin considerations and the implications of using different notations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formula for the wavefunction of two identical fermions and expresses confusion about the implications of having the same quantum number for both particles.
  • Another participant clarifies that the index ##k_i## encompasses all quantum numbers, including spin, suggesting a reinterpretation of the notation used.
  • A different formulation of the wavefunction is proposed, emphasizing the role of spin states and the conditions under which the wavefunction vanishes.
  • There is a discussion about the number of orthogonal wavefunctions obtainable from the Slater determinant compared to the total combinations of quantum states, with uncertainty expressed regarding the exact count.
  • Participants note differences in notation and the implications of assigning particle numbers based on the order of indices, while agreeing that the expressions presented are valid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of quantum numbers and the implications for constructing the Slater determinant. There is no consensus on the exact nature of the orthogonal wavefunctions derived from the Slater determinant, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of different notations and formulations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in their understanding of the relationship between quantum numbers, spin states, and the construction of wavefunctions. There is also mention of unresolved questions regarding the number of orthogonal states available from the Slater determinant.

MisterX
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Consider a system of 2 identical fermions.
$$\psi_{k_1,k_2}(x_1,x_2,m_1, m_2) = \langle x_1\,x_2\,m_1\,m_2\mid \psi \rangle$$
According to what I have read we can construct a state with the right antisymmetry properties by
$$\psi_{k_1,k_2}(x_1,x_2,m_1, m_2) = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\begin{vmatrix}\phi_{k_1}(x_1, m_1) & \phi_{k_2}(x_1, m_1) \\ \phi_{k_1}(x_2, m_2) & \phi_{k_2}(x_2, m_2)\end{vmatrix} $$
$$= \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\left(\phi_{k_1}(x_1, m_1) \phi_{k_2}(x_2, m_2) - \phi_{k_2}(x_1, m_1) \phi_{k_1}(x_2, m_2) \right) $$
This vanishes if ##k_1 = k_2## regardless of any of the other variables. I feel like something is amiss and I am either confused or not doing this properly. For ##m_i = \pm \frac{1}{2}##, shouldn't we have 2 particles allowed to have the same value of ##k## as long as they do not have the same spin? What about singlet and triplet states? How do I understand this?
 
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Actually ##k_i## is a collective index representing all 4 quantum numbers, including the spin. The ##m_1## and ##m_2## in your notation only denote to which particle the spin wavefunction specified implicitly in ##k_1## or ##k_2## belong. So, rather than ##m_i = 1/2## or ##-1/2##, I think it should be either ##1## or ##2## denoting particle ##1## or ##2##, respectively.
 
Apparently the thing to do is actually
$$\phi_{k_1, \sigma_1}\left(x_1, m_1 \right) = f_{k_1}(x)\delta_{\sigma_1m_1}$$
$$\psi_{k_1, k_2, \sigma_1, \sigma_2}(x_1, x_2, m_1, m_2) = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}f_{k_1}(x_1)\delta_{\sigma_1m_1}f_{k_2}(x_2)\delta_{\sigma_2m_2} - \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} f_{k_2}(x_1)\delta_{\sigma_2m_1}f_{k_1}(x_2)\delta_{\sigma_1m_2}$$
I suppose this can also be expressed
$$\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}f_{k_1}(x_1)f_{k_2}(x_2)\mid\sigma_1\rangle\mid\sigma_2\rangle - \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} f_{k_2}(x_1)f_{k_1}(x_2)\mid\sigma_2\rangle\mid\sigma_1\rangle $$

So it seems with ##k_1 = k_2, x_1 = x_2##, we get 0 unless ##\sigma_1\sigma_2 = \uparrow\downarrow## or ## \downarrow\uparrow## in which case there is a singlet.

Also it seems worth noting that when we use the Slater determinant we have less orthogonal ##\psi## than combinations of ##k_1, k_2## (where here I mean I generalized label). There are ##N_k^N## elements in the set of ##\mid k_1\rangle\mid k_2\rangle \cdots \mid k_N \rangle##. It seems the number of orthogonal wave functions from the Slater determinant would be less than this, but I am not certain how many at this time.
 
MisterX said:
$$\phi_{k_1, \sigma_1}\left(x_1, m_1 \right) = f_{k_1}(x)\delta_{\sigma_1m_1}$$
This notation is different from your original one, in this new notation, #k_i# is reserved only for the spatial quantum numbers. However, remember that in this new notation ##\sigma_i = \pm 1/2## and ##m_i = 1,2##. Anyway, I don't disagree with your new notation.
MisterX said:
$$\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}f_{k_1}(x_1)f_{k_2}(x_2)\mid\sigma_1\rangle\mid\sigma_2\rangle - \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} f_{k_2}(x_1)f_{k_1}(x_2)\mid\sigma_2\rangle\mid\sigma_1\rangle $$
There is nothing wrong either with this expression, only that you should realize that you have assigned appearance order to specify the particle number and that ##|\sigma_1\rangle## and ##|\sigma_2\rangle## have fixed values, e.g. ##|\sigma_1\rangle = \uparrow## and ##|\sigma_2\rangle=\downarrow## . So for example, ##|\sigma_2\rangle |\sigma_1\rangle## means first particle has down spin and second particle has up spin.
MisterX said:
It seems the number of orthogonal wave functions from the Slater determinant would be less than this, but I am not certain how many at this time.
I'm not quite sure with your statement there. But given a set of collective indices (those which include the spin as well) ##\{k_1,k_2,...k_N\}## which represent different states, you can only have one ##N\times N## Slater determinant since it contains all possible combinations of those indices.
 

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