Ultraviolet Catastrophe / Rayleigh-Jeans Black Body Cavity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the "Ultraviolet Catastrophe" in the context of black body radiation, specifically examining the Rayleigh-Jeans equation and its implications at ultraviolet frequencies. Participants explore the mathematical formulation and the conceptual understanding of energy density as frequency approaches infinity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the Rayleigh-Jeans equation leads to infinite energy density at ultraviolet frequencies, suggesting that while plugging in a finite frequency yields a large number, it does not result in infinity.
  • Another participant clarifies that the issue arises from integrating the energy density over all frequencies, noting that the classical analysis does not impose an upper limit on frequency.
  • A third participant comments on the historical context, stating that quantum mechanics emerged from the need to address the divergence in the Rayleigh-Jeans equation, mentioning Planck's introduction of quantization as a response to this issue.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the Rayleigh-Jeans equation and its historical significance, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of the infinite energy density and the transition to quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the integration of energy density over frequency and the lack of an upper limit in classical physics, which contributes to the divergence issue. There are also references to historical perspectives on the development of quantum mechanics that may not be universally accepted.

mrjeffy321
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In reading about the “Ultraviolet Catastrophe” in dealing with black body radiation, my book says that at the ultraviolet frequencies and beyond, the Rayleigh-Jean equation for the energy density of the radiation would be infinite (and thus a catastrophe).
If this is the Rayleign-Jeans equation:
p(v)dv = (8 * pi * v^2 * k * T * dv) / c^3
with v being the frequency of light…how does this number come out to be infinite at some finite frequency?
For example, 1 E16 Hz would be well within the ultraviolet part of the EM spectrum. If I plug this value into the above equation I will get a very large number to be sure, but it will not be infinity. Or do they just mean that as the frequency goes to infinity, so does the energy, when we know otherwise experimentally.
 
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Objects don't radiate at a single frequency only. The problem is the total energy that you get when you integrate over all frequencies. In the classical Rayleigh-Jeans analysis, there's no upper limit on the frequency.
 
Last edited:
Correct, and its ironic in fact that quantum mechanics was given birth by the observation that you had to cut the divergence off in just about the most naive way imaginable to a theorist. So Planck basically curve fitted and found that the only way to do this was by adding an arbitrary h in integer units to the equation.

No one until Bohr believed for a second this adhoc curve fitting had anything to do with reality, except that it was a convenient semi empirical law, good for handwavey arguments. And then, even then, his model was quite obviously flawed so it took an extra 10 years (and many experiments) before people took it seriously and QM became accepted lore.
 
OK, I see. Thanks.
 

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