Uncertainty in measurements of the thickness of a pile of pellets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the uncertainty in measurements of the thickness of a pile of HDPE pellets, particularly in the context of experiments involving gamma-ray attenuation. Participants explore different methods for determining uncertainty based on the thickness of individual pellets and propose alternative measurement techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the method to calculate the uncertainty for n pellets given the thickness d and its uncertainty delta_d, suggesting a potential square root of the sum of squares approach.
  • Another participant notes that the definition of "uncertainty" and the assumptions about the distribution of thickness for each pellet are crucial for determining the correct method, indicating that normal distributions may need to be combined.
  • A different approach is proposed, suggesting measuring the total volume of the pellets by water displacement, dividing by the number of pellets, and assuming a spherical shape to simplify the uncertainty calculation to a single estimate.
  • One participant introduces the propagation of errors formula, stating that the uncertainty in a function of thickness can be calculated using the partial derivative of that function with respect to thickness and the variance in thickness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to approach the calculation of uncertainty, with no consensus reached on a single method. Multiple competing views remain regarding the definitions and assumptions necessary for uncertainty calculations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for clarity on the distribution of pellet thickness and the assumptions made in the proposed methods. The discussion does not resolve how to handle the combination of uncertainties from multiple pellets.

nuclearsneke
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TL;DR
TL;DNR: how to measure an uncertainty for the thickness of a pile of pellets?
Howdie!

We have been playing around with melting and molding HDPE pellets recently. After that, we measured their diameter and thickiness 5 times each to get an uncertainty. In our experiments we put one pellet between gamma-source and detector and measure its attenuation. After that we place the next pellet on top of the previous and carry out the same measurements. And so on.

My question is:
If each pellet had thickness d with uncertainty delta_d, then how would I calculate the uncertainty for n pellets?

Would it be a square root of the sum of uncertainty squares or sth trickier? Thank you in advance!
 
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That depends how you define "uncertainty " and what you assume about the distribution of thickness for each pellet. In theory, you probably need to combine normal distributions.
 
How about measuring the total volume, by putting them under water and measuring the displacement. Then divide by the number of pellets N and assume spherical. Then you'll get an estimate for the average diameter with only one uncertainty to deal with instead of N independent uncertainties.
 
If each pellet has a thickness ##d## and if you have some function ##f(d)##, then the uncertainty in ##f## is related to the uncertainty in ## d## by the propagation of errors formula: $$\sigma_f^2 = \left( \frac{\partial f}{\partial d}\right)^2 \sigma_d^2$$

So you just write down ##f(d)##, take the partial derivative, square that, and multiply by the variance in ##d## and that gives you the variance in ##f##.
 

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