Uncertainty Principle and Single-Slit Diffraction

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (HUP) in the context of single-slit diffraction, particularly focusing on how the slit width affects the uncertainty in momentum and direction of photons passing through the slit. Participants explore calculations, theoretical implications, and the relationship between position and momentum uncertainties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the uncertainty in momentum as a function of slit width, expressing concern about the implications when the slit width approaches zero.
  • Another participant suggests that the momentum of a particle passing through a narrow slit is represented by a probability distribution, with the width of this distribution increasing as the slit narrows.
  • There is a query about how to calculate the probability distribution after the photon passes through the slit.
  • Participants discuss solving the Schrödinger equation or using Huygen's principle to understand the diffraction effects.
  • One participant questions the applicability of Huygen's principle for slits smaller than the wavelength, while others assert it can be applied properly at all wavelengths.
  • A participant mentions the Fraunhofer diffraction formula as a potential solution for describing the wavefunction of a photon passing through a single slit.
  • There is a clarification regarding the interpretation of the uncertainty relation, noting that dX and dP refer to standard deviations rather than literal ranges of values.
  • Another participant argues that the uncertainty principle indicates a non-zero width distribution of momentum when position uncertainty approaches zero.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of sin(theta) exceeding 1 when the slit width is less than the wavelength, suggesting limitations in the initial calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Huygen's principle and the implications of slit width on the uncertainty in momentum. There is no consensus on the best approach to calculate the probability distribution or the validity of the initial calculations presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their calculations, particularly regarding assumptions about slit width and the behavior of sin(theta) in relation to wavelength. The discussion remains open-ended with unresolved mathematical steps and interpretations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying quantum mechanics, wave optics, or anyone exploring the implications of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in experimental setups involving diffraction.

peter0302
Messages
876
Reaction score
3
I'm trying to calculate the uncertainty in momentum/direction resulting purely from the certainty in position caused by a small slit, as a function of the slit width. Can anyone tell me if I'm doing this right?

Starting with the HUP:
dX * dP >= h/4pi

dX = the slit width w

P = h/lambda * sin(theta)
where theta is the angle that the photon might be traveling after the slit relative to the center of the slit

so

dP = 2 * h/lambda * sin(theta)
A factor of 2 because the uncertainty can extend in either direction from the center of the slit

so

w * 2 * h/lambda * sin(theta) >= h / 4pi
sin(theta) >= lambda / (8pi * w)

Is that right?

My only concern with the calculation is that "w" could be so small that sin(theta) could be greater than 1, which is of course impossible, so that's why I think I made an error somewhere.

Thanks for any ideas!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I guess the resolution to the problem is the assumption that
[tex]|p| = \frac{\hbar}{\lambda}[/tex]
after the diffraction after the diffraction. In fact, for the particle to pass through the narrow slit, it's momentum is not a single value, but given by a probability distribution. The width of that distribution is what you'd call [tex]\Delta p_x[/tex]. If the slit is made very narrow, [tex]\Delta p[/tex] can grow arbitrarily large, and so [tex]\langle \sqrt{|p|^2}\rangle[/tex] can grow arbitrarily large.
 
Ok .. so how do I calculate the probability distribution after going through the slit?
 
Either solve the Schrödinger equation or use Huygen's principle. Incidentally, in the far field region, the spatial wave-function is well approximated by the spatial Fourier transform of the aperture. The uncertainty principle applies to Fourier transforms also.
 
Last edited:
Show me how to solve the Schrödinger equation for a photon.

Also I thought Huygen's principle doesn't work when the slit is smaller than a wavelength. When a slit is larger than a wavelength, you get single-slit diffraction which is not what I want.

In fact, for the particle to pass through the narrow slit, it's momentum is not a single value, but given by a probability distribution.
The magnitude of the momentum is always given by h/lambda. It's only the vector components, i.e., direction, that change due to Heisenberg Uncertainty. Otherwise light would change color after going through a slit and all lasers would be white.
 
Ah, can I just use the Fraunhofer diffraction formula:

[tex]\psi[/tex]([tex]\theta[/tex])=sinc([tex]\pi[/tex]a[tex]\theta[/tex]/[tex]\lambda[/tex])

?
 
peter0302 said:
Show me how to solve the Schrödinger equation for a photon.

Also I thought Huygen's principle doesn't work when the slit is smaller than a wavelength. When a slit is larger than a wavelength, you get single-slit diffraction which is not what I want.


The magnitude of the momentum is always given by h/lambda. It's only the vector components, i.e., direction, that change due to Heisenberg Uncertainty. Otherwise light would change color after going through a slit and all lasers would be white.

Momentum is always given by h/lambda, but lambda is sometimes not well defined. Far away from the slit waves will be nearly straight, so the momentum distribution will be delta(p-p0). But this is not true close to the slit. The momentum operator is defined by -i*2*pi*h* grad. As soon as you have more than one point source of waves, the sum of gradients can have different magnitude on diferent points.

The uncertainity principle alone can prove that the magnitude of p has a distibution with non-zero width when the uncertainity in position aproaches zero (since uncertainity in momentum aproaches infinity and becomes greater than the average momentum).
Actually your calculation was quite usefull for a slit with w>>lambda. I think you could also omit the number 2 in dp, since the uncertainity is defined by average distance from the center of distribution.
 
Last edited:
Ok, so I just learned for the first time that in the familiar uncertainty relation
dX dP >= h_bar / 2

dX and dP are not literally the range of values X and P can have, but are the standard deviation in those values. Glad I know that now.

So the Fraunhoffer formula should provide the right wavefunction for the photon going through a single slit.
 
peter0302 said:
Show me how to solve the Schrödinger equation for a photon.
Cute.
 
  • #10
Huygen's principle works just fine at all wave-lengths... it just needs to be applied properly.
 
  • #11
sin(theta) becomes greater than 1 when the slit width is less than the wavelength. So it simply doesn't work. Fortunately, we can make the slit width larger than a wavelength and still get uncertainty effects.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K