Uncountable Sets: Proving N to N Bijections Are Uncountable

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves proving that the set of bijections from the natural numbers (N) to itself is uncountable. Participants are exploring various approaches to understand the nature of these bijections and their relation to known uncountable sets, such as the real numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • One participant attempts to define a function for bijections but expresses uncertainty about the next steps. Others suggest representing bijections as infinite sequences of integers and relate this to the uncountability of real numbers. Questions arise about how to construct real numbers from these bijections and whether Cantor's argument applies.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing ideas and seeking clarification on the relationship between bijections and uncountable sets. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of Cantor's argument, but there is no explicit consensus on the next steps or the validity of the approaches discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of proving uncountability and are referencing established proofs related to real numbers. There is a noted uncertainty about how to transition from the properties of real numbers to the specific case of bijections from N to N.

sha sam
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1. The problem statement

Need to prove that the set of bijections from N to N is uncountable.2. The attempt at a solution

I'm not really sure how to proceed here but what I did so far is this...

f(2i) = { 2i+1, if fi(2i)=2i
2i , if fi(2i)not equal to =2i }Not very sure what I'm going to do.

Please help me.
 
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you could try to start by representing each biejction as an infinite sequence of un-repeating integers (similar to a permutation)

The problem then becomes showing the uncountability of the set of infinite sequences...

if you have been shown the uncountabilty of the reals, you may be able to use a similar argument...
 
For each bijection, you can construct a real number by .0.f(1)f(2)f(3)... . Can you show that that set of real numbers is uncountable?
 
Not really sure how to do that.

Can you please help me out?
 
Are you familiar with Cantor's argument to show the reals are uncountable?
 
Is this proof on real numbers correct? Then how do I proceed from here to show the bijection from N to N is uncountable?

Let A be a set of Real numbers between numbers 0 and 1.

Suppose x0, x1, x2, ... is any sequence of elements of A, there is an element xεA that is not in the sequence for every i>=0 and x≠xi .

X0 -> 0.x0,0 x0,1 x0,2 …
X1 -> 0.x1,0 x1,1 x1,2 …
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Assume the element not in A is X -> 0.x0 x1 x2…

Then xi=xi,i and the sequence of x0 x1 x2 doesnot end with .99999…….
The xi= 1 if xi,i≠1 and xi= 0 if xi,i=1

As the real numbers between 0 and 1 are uncountable and it’s a subset of the total real numbers, the set of real numbers are uncountable.
 

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