Understand Linear Algebra: Im(BF) in Im(B)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around concepts in linear algebra, specifically the relationship between the image (range) of matrices when multiplied in different orders. Participants explore implications of matrix multiplication on the images of matrices, particularly in the context of systems theory.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether Im(FB) is still in Im(B) and seeks clarification on the implications of matrix multiplication order.
  • Another participant asserts that if x is in the range of BF, then it follows that x is also in the range of B, thus supporting the claim that Im(BF) is a subset of Im(B).
  • A later reply challenges the assertion regarding Im(FB), providing a counterexample involving projections and rotations in ##\mathbb{R}^2##, suggesting that Im(FB) may not necessarily be in Im(B).
  • Participants discuss the implications of Im(B) being in Im(T) and whether this leads to conclusions about Im(A) and Im(AB) also being in Im(T), with one participant arguing that this is not necessarily true, again providing a counterexample.
  • There is a claim that Im(BA) is in Im(T), which is presented as true without further elaboration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of matrix multiplication on the images of matrices. While some agree on certain relationships, others provide counterexamples that challenge these assertions, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved on several points.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific examples in ##\mathbb{R}^2## and the assumptions regarding the properties of the matrices involved (e.g., projections, rotations, identity). The discussion does not resolve the implications of these examples for more general cases.

Payam30
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Hi,
Im actually doing some systems theory and it requires some basic linear algebra stuff that I totally forgotten. Anyway:according to my prof. :
For any matrix F. Im(BF) is contained in Im(B).


here is my question:
so Im(FB) is still in Im(B)? or is it true only when we multiply a matrix to the right of the origin matrix?

if Im(B) is in Im(T) and Im(AB) is in Im(T), is Im(A) in Im(T) as well? and is Im(BA) in Im(T). imagin that the dimension ab matrices are appropriate. and they are constant real matrices
 
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Assuming that B and F are matrices, and that Im(B) denotes the range of B (I would write it as ran B)...

If x is in the range of BF, then there's a y such that x=(BF)y=B(Fy). This implies that x is in the range of B.

So yes, Im(BF) is a subset of Im(B).
 
Fredrik said:
Assuming that B and F are matrices, and that Im(B) denotes the range of B (I would write it as ran B)...

If x is in the range of BF, then there's a y such that x=(BF)y=B(Fy). This implies that x is in the range of B.

So yes, Im(BF) is a subset of Im(B).
Hi
Thanks for your answer. What about the other quations? thanks.
 
Payam30 said:
so Im(FB) is still in Im(B)?

This is not necessarily true. For example, in ##\mathbb{R}^2##, let ##B## a projection on the X-axis and let ##B## be a suitable rotation.

if Im(B) is in Im(T) and Im(AB) is in Im(T), is Im(A) in Im(T) as well?

Not necessarily true. in ##\mathbb{R}^2##, let ##B## and ##T## be projections on the X-axis and let ##A## be the identity.

and is Im(BA) in Im(T).

This is true.
 

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