Understanding Abelian Groups, QLG, and Fiber Bundles in String Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of string theory, specifically questioning the nature of QLG, fiber bundles, and abelian versus non-abelian groups. Participants explore theoretical aspects and mathematical definitions related to these topics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on what QLG is and its relation to string theory, indicating that this is not a homework question.
  • Another participant suggests that QLG might be a typo for LQG and provides a brief explanation of non-abelian groups, noting that they do not satisfy the commutative property.
  • A participant attempts to describe fiber bundles, suggesting that they involve "pasting" one space onto another, using the example of a line and a circle to illustrate the concept.
  • One participant asserts that loop quantum gravity (LQG) is distinct from string theory, emphasizing that string theory operates with a fixed background while LQG involves a dynamic background.
  • A more detailed explanation of fiber bundles and non-abelian gauge theories is provided, discussing tangent and cotangent bundles, directional derivatives, and the role of connections in manifolds.
  • Another participant expresses a desire to understand the complex explanations provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between QLG and string theory, with at least one participant asserting that LQG is not a string theory. The discussion includes multiple perspectives on the definitions and implications of fiber bundles and non-abelian groups, indicating that no consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Some explanations involve complex mathematical concepts that may depend on specific definitions or assumptions that are not fully articulated in the discussion. The relationship between various theories and their foundational principles remains unresolved.

Phred101.2
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Can anyone tell me what type of string theory QLG is? Or explain
fiber bundles and (non)abelian groups? This isn't homework, or anything btw.
 
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I don't know what "QLG" is. If you're asking about "LQG" there's several threads trying to describe it in the "beyond the standard model" forum.

"Nonabelian groups" just means a group where the commutative property does not hold. So if you have a nonabelian group, and it has members A and B, it might be the case that A*B is not equal to B*A.

I personally can't describe a "Fiber bundle" very well, but generally the idea is that you take two spaces, and you "paste" one of them onto every point of the other. For example, if you have a circle, and you also have a line, you could "paste" the line onto the circle in such a way that the start of the line appears at every point of the circle. The result would be a cylinder. The line, the circle, and the method by which you decided to "paste" the one to the other (all of which together describe this cylinder) would together make up a "fiber bundle". (I hope I got that right.)

There are a lot of good descriptions of this kind of thing at wikipedia.org and http://mathworld.wolfram.com.
 
Pasting is otherwise called mapping, right? And that was a typo, mate.
 
Well, loop quantum gravity is not a string theory. There's a huge difference between the two. Namely, string works with a fixed background and LQG is a dynamic background theory. In laymans talk that means that the background has been quantized in LQC. In doing such gravity can be treated as a fundamental and not an effective theory.
 
I must apologize to physics forums I drink a lot

I'll try to answer your question about fiber bundles and non-abelian gauge theories in one fatal swoop, in a physics way, not to mathy.

Ok, you have a manifold, [tex]M[/tex]. At each point on the manifold you can create a vector space of all vectors tangent to the manifold at that point. This is called the tangent vector space at that point, [tex]TM_x[/tex]. Now you can think of a disjoint union of all the tangent spaces at every point on the manifold and this is called the tangent bundle [tex] TM = \coprod\limits_{x \in M} {TM_x }[/tex]. Similarly, the cotangent bundle is the disjoint union of all the, orthogonal vectors, one forms to each point on the manifold [tex] T^* M = \coprod\limits_{x \in M} {T^* M_x }[/tex]. The important part to a physicist is that the directional derivative of tensors changes from point to point on a manifold. The connection [tex]A[/tex] or in relativity [tex]\Gamma _{\beta \gamma }^\alpha[/tex] tells you how the directional derivative changes from point to point on a manifold. This is where the concept of a bundle comes in. So what you get is an exterior derivative. For Yang Mills, non abelian gauge theories, this exterior derivative is [tex]D_\mu = \partial _\mu - iA_\mu ^\beta (x)t_\beta[/tex] where [tex]t_\beta[/tex] are the generators of semi simple lie algebras. Now, looking at the holonomies, parallel transports, of the exterior derivative you get [tex]P\exp \left({i\oint\limits_C{d{\mathbf{x}}{\mathbf{A}}(x)} } \right)[/tex]. It should be noted that this is very similar to looking at the fundamental groups in topology. Except in that case, you let your loops get contracted to the base point. Now expanding [tex]P\exp \left({i\oint\limits_C{d{\mathbf{x}}{\mathbf{A}}(x)} } \right)[/tex] you get [tex] P\exp \left( {i\oint\limits_C {d{\mathbf{x}}{\mathbf{A}}(x)} } \right) = e + \frac{1}<br /> {2}\iint {dx^\mu } \wedge dx^\tau \left( {\partial _\mu {\mathbf{A}}_\tau - \partial _\tau {\mathbf{A}}_\mu - [{\mathbf{A}}_\mu ,{\mathbf{{\rm A}}}_\tau ]} \right)<br /> + \cdots[/tex]
. Now the curvature term is [tex]{\mathbf{F}}_{\mu \tau } = \partial _\mu {\mathbf{A}}_\tau - \partial _\tau {\mathbf{A}}_\mu - [{\mathbf{A}}_\mu ,{\mathbf{A}}_\tau ][/tex]. What they mean by non-abelian is that [tex][{\mathbf{A}}_\mu ,{\mathbf{A}}_\tau ] \ne 0[/tex]
 
Thanks I'll try to get this.
 

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