Gauge Theory and Fiber Bundles

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between fiber bundles and gauge theories, particularly focusing on the mathematical structures involved, such as principal G-bundles and the role of gauge fields. Participants seek to clarify concepts related to gauge groups, Lie algebras, and the interpretation of various mathematical forms in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks an intuitive understanding of how fiber bundles describe gauge theories, specifically mentioning the decomposition of gauge fields in the adjoint representation.
  • Another participant proposes that for SU(2), the gauge group and Lie algebra are related, questioning the representation of gauge fields.
  • A different participant clarifies the distinction between the group SU(2) and its Lie algebra su(2), explaining the nature of fibers as g-valued 1-forms.
  • One participant suggests consulting Bryce De Witt's work for foundational insights into the topic.
  • Confusion arises regarding the definition of the structure group, with one participant reflecting on their interpretation of gauge fields and principal bundles.
  • Another participant acknowledges a misunderstanding about the placement of Wμa in the Lie algebra and attempts to clarify the mapping of Lie algebra valued 1-forms.
  • A participant raises a question about connection one-forms and the conditions they must satisfy, noting discrepancies in various sources.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the definitions of Ad and its implications in the context of connection one-forms.
  • A participant reiterates their initial inquiry about fiber bundles and gauge theories, seeking layman's terms explanations.
  • Another participant questions the use of the term "layman," suggesting the original poster may not be a layman based on their phrasing.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations and understandings of the concepts discussed, indicating that there is no consensus on several points, particularly regarding the definitions and roles of gauge fields, structure groups, and connection one-forms.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion over the definitions and relationships between gauge groups, Lie algebras, and the mathematical structures involved, highlighting the complexity of the topic and the need for clarity in definitions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in gauge theories, fiber bundles, and the mathematical frameworks that underpin these concepts, particularly those seeking a deeper understanding of the relationships between these areas in theoretical physics.

knowwhatyoudontknow
Messages
30
Reaction score
5
Hopefully, I am in the right forum.

I am trying to get an intuitive understanding of how fiber bundles can describe gauge theories. Gauge fields transform in the adjoint representation and can be decomposed as:

Wμ = Wμata

Gauge field = Gauge group x generators in the adjoint representation.

I have been reading about principle G-bundles where the manifold and the fiber correspond to the gauge group, G. However, I can't quite relate this to the above. Can someone help me understand this is layman's terms.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2 and resurgance2001
Physics news on Phys.org
Using SU(2) as the example, does this mean that G = F = su(2) = ta and the section, σ(x) = Wμ(x)a so that:
Wμa(x): ta(x) -> ta(x)?
 
No. G=SU(2) is a group, and g=su(2) is the associated Lie algebra with general element ##\lambda=\sum_a \lambda^at_a##.
The fibers consist of g-valued 1-forms ##A## mapping the vector ##X## to ##\sum_a(\sum_\mu X^\mu A_\mu^a)t_a\in g##. The group acts on these by the adjoint action.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_theory#Mathematical_formalism
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
This is an advanced subject. On an introductory note, go to a library and ask for Bryce De Witt's "The Global Approach to QFT" and only read its first 2 pages of the 1st volume.
 
First, I think part of my confusion arises from understanding the definition of the structure group. I considered it to be Wμa(x) and not Wμ(x) (= Wμa(x)ta). https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...of-the-lie-algebra-correspond-to-gauge-fields alludes to the fact that the choice is somewhat arbitrary, however.

That being the case, my interpretation (using your response and with help from Wikipedia) is as follows:

If there is a principal bundle, P, whose base space is space or spacetime and the structure group is a Lie group, Wμ(x), then there is a 'principal homogeneous space' for Wμ(x) over a point x on the base space. This 'principal homogeneous space' is defined by the right action of Wμ(x) on a non-empty set Vx (column vectors) such that for any v, vμ in VX, vμ.Wμa(x)tA -> v.

The sections of P then assign these principal homogeneous spaces to each point, x, on the base space.

For U(1) Wμ(x) = exp(iθ(x)) and VX is set of all complex numbers that constitute a one-dimensional complex vector space.

Have I got it right now?
 
knowwhatyoudontknow said:
First, I think part of my confusion arises from understanding the definition of the structure group. I considered it to be Wμa(x) and not Wμ(x) (= Wμa(x)ta).
For U(1) Wμ(x) = exp(iθ(x)) and VX is set of all complex numbers that constitute a one-dimensional complex vector space.
No. Wμ(x) is the general element of the Lie algebra. It is not a group element.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
Sorry about my late response.

First, I recognize my mistake in not recognizing that Wμa belongs in the Lie algebra.

As far as understanding g-valued -1-forms, my interpretation is as follows:

A Lie algebra valued 1-form, A, 'eats' a tangent vector, v ∈ TM, and returns an element, g ∈ TeG.
It is the map:

A ∈ T*M ⊗ g: TM -> g

At a point p on the manifold this becomes:

ωP ⊗ g: vp -> ωp(vp).g

However, I have also seen this map interpreted as:

ωp ⊗ g: TpP -> g where p ∈ P

Which I don't quite understand.

This is tough stuff for a retired EE to understand! Thank you both for your continued patience.
 
Hello again. I have a question about connection one-forms. I was going to open a new topic but figured this might be better. I have been watching this video from Prof. Schuller. At minute 49 he puts forward this equation as one of the conditions that a connection one-form needs to satisfy:

(Rg*ω)X = (Adg-1)*(ω(X))

Other sources I have looked at show this as:

(Rg*ω)X = (Adg-1)(ω(X))

or,

Rg*ω = (adg-1)ω which implies adg-1 = (Adg-1)*

Which is very confusing to me. Which of these is correct?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: atyy
  • #10
Just close this out. I think this has to do with how Ad is defined. Some texts define Ad as Ad: G -> G in which case Ad*: TG -> TG. Others define this as Φ: G -> G such that Φ* = Ad: TG -> TG. Confusing.
 
  • #11
knowwhatyoudontknow said:
Hopefully, I am in the right forum.

I am trying to get an intuitive understanding of how fiber bundles can describe gauge theories. Gauge fields transform in the adjoint representation and can be decomposed as:

Wμ = Wμata

Gauge field = Gauge group x generators in the adjoint representation.

I have been reading about principle G-bundles where the manifold and the fiber correspond to the gauge group, G. However, I can't quite relate this to the above. Can someone help me understand this is layman's terms.
I just found this answer: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/438697
 
  • #12
knowwhatyoudontknow said:
Can someone help me understand this is layman's terms.
Are you sure about the word "layman"? From your phrasing of the question, you don't look like a layman. Perhaps you meant something more like "non-specialist"?

Or if you really want to read about gauge theories and fiber bundles on a semi-layman level, check out the the book R. Penrose, The Road to Reality (Chap. 15).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 47 ·
2
Replies
47
Views
7K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 75 ·
3
Replies
75
Views
10K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K