Understanding Creationism: Definition and Relevance in Scientific Discourse

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of creationism, its definitions, and its relevance in scientific discourse. Participants explore various interpretations of creationism, including Young Earth Creationism and Intelligent Design, and the implications these beliefs have on the understanding of Earth's history and evolution.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define creationism as the belief in a sentient being that created the Earth and life in its current state, contrasting it with scientific views on the age of the Earth and evolution.
  • There are claims that some scientists identify as progressive creationists, who believe in a form of creationism that incorporates aspects of evolution, suggesting a complex relationship between science and faith.
  • Participants express skepticism about the scientific validity of creationist claims, noting that many creationists lack qualifications in relevant scientific fields.
  • Some argue that the discussion of creationism is significant due to its influence on educational curricula and public perception of science, particularly in the U.S.
  • There is mention of Dr. Hugh Ross, who is described as a legitimate scientist with beliefs that may align with certain creationist views, though some participants question his qualifications in evolutionary biology.
  • Concerns are raised about the representation of evolutionary biology by creationist sources, with some participants asserting that these sources misrepresent scientific facts.
  • Participants highlight the lack of peer-reviewed publications supporting Intelligent Design, suggesting that it does not meet the criteria for scientific discourse.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on creationism, with no consensus reached. Some defend the validity of certain creationist perspectives, while others strongly oppose them, emphasizing the importance of scientific evidence and peer review.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the beliefs surrounding creationism and the varying interpretations that exist within the broader discussion. There is an acknowledgment of the influence of religious beliefs on the acceptance of scientific theories, particularly in the context of U.S. education.

  • #61
She hit the nail on the head!
Nereid said:
Let's talk about the teaching of science and the role of religion ...
...Note that there's nothing 'religious' about this, it's pure politics.

The Creationists (christian and non-christian) have both attempted to smash a nut with a hammer, but have cracked the anvil instead. Neither is there anything 'political' about it, it is pure 'religion'.
This in essence is to see the conflict through both pairs of eyes. I personally see the separation of church and state in the US and UK as the same as Stalin's or Mao's separation of church and state. We have our belief in the same way as many have a Republican, democrat, Labour, conservative, Liberal belief etc.
 
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  • #62
Ian said:
She hit the nail on the head!


The Creationists (christian and non-christian) have both attempted to smash a nut with a hammer, but have cracked the anvil instead. Neither is there anything 'political' about it, it is pure 'religion'.
This in essence is to see the conflict through both pairs of eyes. I personally see the separation of church and state in the US and UK as the same as Stalin's or Mao's separation of church and state. We have our belief in the same way as many have a Republican, democrat, Labour, conservative, Liberal belief etc.
Thanks Ian.

So you personally would wish to live in a (christian) theocratic state (= nation)?
 
  • #63
Ian said:
I personally see the separation of church and state in the US and UK as the same as Stalin's or Mao's separation of church and state.

You have personally seen Christian churches persecuted and shut down and the believers imprisoned by the US and UK governments?
 
  • #64
No I haven't, and it wouldn't be allowed in our places. Look, this thread is really about the 'creationist' issue and I don't want to hijack a debate that has gone for five pages.
But since you ask, yes I would like to live in a 'theocratic' state but not the kind of state that would be run by the Christians who have control over the churches today. They have raised the 'militant church' which espouses the highest authority as the clergy/pastor/pope etc. They are named as the 'Church of God' in the bible and are only one part of the 'body of Christ', but they are certainly not the highest authority that the bible speaks about.
 
  • #65
Thanks Ian, yes we really should try to stay OT, and not stray OT :rolleyes:

Well, we were talking about creationism, and as it's part of the Earth sub-forum, I guess that means alternative views of geology. If that is indeed the case, then I think we're done; no one is proposing any YEC (or similar) ideas, and all those who've spoken have said (paraphrasing; oversimplifying?) that they think it's not really science, and has no data to support it.
 

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